Hybrid Premium

Hi squeege,

Your leaving out maintenance variation. Even if you plan to sell the Focus in 3 years, the resale will be less due to the cost of maintenance required on a standard car, versus the Prius. So a lifetime cost evaluation is what I did.

In normal usage Prius brakes should last 125K miles (less in the mountains). Also, with a Ford you might want to consider alternator and starter repairs over the ownership life as well. Prius does not have those, and the electric machines and electronics that provide those functions should last the life of the car. Factor in those costs on a per 1K mile basis and it will reduce the total cost of ownership difference.

Right now, however, the Focus may be a cheaper car in a vehicle lifetime evaluation. But, its smaller and noisier. So, you get what you pay for.

Do not forget to put in cost of money issues. If your buying on loan use the loan rate. If by cash, include lost interest (interest rates are pretty poor right now). I evaluted on cash purchase either way. But, if your buying the Focus by cash, but would need a loan for the Prius, that needs to be figured. Also, do not forget state sales tax.

If you really want a Prius, but cannot buy one with good economics right now, then maybe a used Civic or Corrola (or Fit or Yaris) or something like that would work. This allows you to put money in the bank over the next few years, and then buy a Prius. Or maybe even the new small HSD Hybrid Toyota is talking about. If you get one of the cars mentioned, it may still have some resale after you put get it up to 100K miles.

 

The Prius is a lot more car. Better features, lower maintenance, roomier interior. Oh, and as a bonus, it gets better mileage.

Tom

 

Squeege, welcome. How long do you intend to keep the Ford & how much do you expect to pay for repairs & maintenance? The Prius is easy on brakes and just doesn't have a number of parts that will eventually need replacing on a conventional car. If you can get 33mpg out of the Ford and 53mpg (doable) out of the Prius then you'll save 217 gallons of gas per year. The last of the Prius warranty expires at 150,000 miles. Will the Ford still be on the road? There seems to be a better chance of a high mileage Prius ending its service life in a collision rather than scrapped for expensive repairs. I suspect the Prius will last at least twice as long as the Ford so figure on buying two $15000 Fords + r&m + 217 gallons of gas. You'd still be ahead if you dropped $30000 on the Prius.

 

Hi Squeege,

You came to a Prius forum and "surprise" they recommend you buy a Prius. I'll be a little bit different. Buy the car you want to buy. If you Like the Prius buy it but don't let people talk you into believing that you are going to save money by buying one. If you can buy a loaded Focus for $15,000 you simply aren't going to make up the difference.

I would recommend a used car instead of a new car though. Yes, you can get a new Focus for $15,000 but you can also get a 2 year old Focus with 15K - 30K miles for $9,000 to $12,000. (The CarMax by me has a fully loaded 06 ZX4 SES with 31K miles for $9,599.)

The first two years of ownership have huge depreciation and use up very little of a car's useful life. You can easily find a good used car that is still under full warranty for 25-30% less than new. The Ford Focus is a good car.

 

If you have always bought new, you have pretty much invalidated any argument you might make about saving money. Except for limited supply situations, it is never cheaper to buy a new car, even if you drive it into the ground. With the one exception above, it is always more cost effective to buy a used car and drive it into the ground.

If you are trying to save money, look at a used Focus or Civic in good condition. Even used Prius have come down with the current economy, so that could be an option too.

Tom

 

you have never driven a Prius because if you had, you would not be justifying the price. my niece has a Focus (and her mother works at Ford so the Price diff was about $13,000. granted this a used car, but a 2007 with less than 12,000 miles)

and trust me, the Focus is not even half the car the Prius is. so if looking at mileage alone, you cant justify the price. realistically, you will get 100-120% more mileage if mostly city/suburban driving, but im guessing at 80 miles RT, its mostly freeway where the savings is more like 50-75%.

so in the Focus, driving reasonably, you should get around 35 mpg (at least that is what my niece is getting, but she drives around 60-62 mpg and mostly because traffic does not allow much more than that)

in the Pri, you can get 48-53 in summer. you can figure a realistic difference of about 2 cents per mile @ 80 miles is 1.60 a day *5 days *4.3 weeks/month makes a diff of about $35 a month in gas at $2.50 a gallon.

so the only real thing is the driving experience and the unknown maintenance cost

**edit** my niece is a 19 yr old college student. she is frequently going to her car at school alone, sometimes late at night. she has said many many many times that being able to unlock the car door without having to get her keys out (something that she has always loved about my Pri) is something she would have gladly paid good money for and what does it do??? just saves her a few seconds? but what is the cost to her peace of mind?

 

If your main motivation is fuel efficiency, then there is no other production car for you but the Prius.

The problem is that you are also interested in total efficiencies, including use of your dollars.

I am of the opinion that the best car, for overall economic efficiency, is likely going to be a used Civic (base model) purchased privately from someone who really cared for the car. I think others on PriusChat may share a similar view.

Does this mean I suggest you go that route? If you want to minimize your dollars and see a car as simply an A-to-B mode of transport, then "Yes." If you want to be part of the coming sea-change to depart from standard ICE autos and move toward lower-emission cars, and you want some features that just don't come with basic economy cars, then "No."

 

I have always pretty much owned US made cars & no I don't have any horror stories about them. Even back in the 70's I was getting 100,000 mi plus out of my vehicles. I have always driven a lot of highway miles & usually owned a Buick LeSabre or Olds 88/98. This past year my 1990 olds was due to be replaced. What with?

I had been fascinated with the Prius from day one, read all I could about it when it was not available in the US, & running in Japan. December of 08, I decided to buy a car as used cars were sagging a bit. Mini Cooper was on the list, Honda Civic/Accord, Toyota Rave, Prius, Corolla, etc. I have never purchased a brand new car as the depreciation is not something I care to be a participant of & like to miss this as much as possible. I also looked at the Focus & some of my friends own them. Of course I considered a Miata, BMW, Lexus & Camry was fairly high on my list as several of my friends own them. Even looked a the Caddi CTS, which I like.

Back to economics & ergonomics I decided the give the Prius first shot.

My first drive with the Prius was so-so. At night, about 10 degrees & windows iced over during an ice/snow storm. I felt a little confined but surprised at the handling/acceleration as it was better than I had anticipated. I was impressed, but not in the " I gotta own this car" mode. However, they talked me into driving it for the week-end. This convinced me to purchase the vehicle based on the following.

First drive was 30-35 mph quartering (330 degrees) & COLD. I drove 75+ & ended up averaging the first tank at 49mpg, also had a headwind coming home, just my luck. The Prius was pretty stable & quiet. I have improved the handling with wider tires 195/60x15.

I am single, but live on some acreage & on the road a lot. I have a 4wd pickup but still like to be able to haul a little stuff in my car. I like good mileage & good handling. I never rule out camping or needing to sleep in my car. I have always liked/wanted a hatchback. So the Prius ended up the car I liked. The maintenance history was important to me. Let me tell you, driving 450-500 miles & filling up for $14 dollars or so is nice. I get the balance of immediate gratification/benefits & long term reliability & resale. Combined with good mileage this seems to be a win-win situation for me.

I haven't really analyzed it in detail, but it looks like the resale of the Prius drops in that 180,000 mile range compared with say a Civic/Accord/Carolla , etc. ???? If this is indeed accurate, I think there is a concern about the battery & replacement that factors in for some. Even though you don't have to replace the entire battery and can replace the individual cells, concern about the battery is a factor. I even purchased an extended warranty that I now feel was a waste of $. I think concern about the "unknown" drove that purchase. The bottom line is you can buy a used battery for a few hundred dollars. Even if you go with a factory $3,000 replacement is comparable to a new engine/trans in another model vehicle.

The minimal environment impact is priceless. Maybe not today, but for future generations may be. I would try to drive one for a few days, even if you have to rent one, and that will definitely let you know if the Prius is for you. Mine provides the features I wanted & needed. Is it the perfect vehicle? No, but certainly a very fine vehicle. At this point in time, it is the best vehicle I have ever owned.

 

What they said. You need to figure out your priority:
Minimize total cost? Buy a used Civic, Hyundai or Kia and drive it into the ground.
Minimize petroleum consumption and emissions? Buy a Prius. If you must have a new one you can get a great price on a 2009 right now.
Maximize cool gizmos without maximizing cost? Buy a loaded 2010 Prius.

 

Just a minor correction :

When JimN said that "the last of the Prius warranty expires at 150,000 miles" he was speaking of the 10-yr/150,000 mile hybrid component warranty that is only available to those of us in the Calif emissions states (all of new England, NY, NJ & CA). The rest of the country only has the hybrid component warranty for 8 yrs/100,000 miles. JimN has the longer warranty in his state but forgot that the OP lives in Ohio.

Ken (in Bolton,Ct)

 

Hmm. I drive many rental cars each year, and I'll tell you they do not always receive the greatest care. It isn't necessarily neglect on the part of the rental car companies -- the drivers can put a hurt on these cars. My last rental was a 2008 Prius -- it had some miles on it (about 38K). It also had a key fob that didn't work. It wasn't the battery that went bad!

 

Take a good long look at the Prius. I think it is not only the best car I've owned, but also the best production car available. It isn't the fastest or the most beautiful to the eye, and it can't pull a mountain (or many mole hills), but it can carry my whole family anywhere we want to go and do it safely, with decent comfort, for very little cost and for many, many years.

 

Squeege,

I agree with those suggesting a used Civic as the best/lowest cost to own. When we purchased our 2008 package 2 we compared it with a non hybrid Civic. There was $5,000 difference between the two but we bought the more expensive Prius anyway. We simply liked the car better. However I will never make up the difference in cost.

Yes if we calculate gas and other savings we can make up the 5K difference in time but never the other costs. What other costs you ask? That $5K had to come from somewhere. It is either a loan with interest attached, or it is taken out of an investment that could earn interest. Hence cheaper cars can be much lower cost even when you include large differences in fuel economy or maintenance.

If you're looking for a great car but want to minimize total cost the Civic is the way to go in my opinion. Our 1997 Civic has had only one problem and I fully expect it to last through 300K miles plus. Don't know if the Prius will last that long but it is possible.

Good luck with your decision. If you drive the Prius long enough you'll end up stuck with a decision more difficult than you think. It is an impressive car and there are good reasons we Prius owners are so high on the car. Owner satisfaction very high. Total cost is only one parameter.

 

Here's the advice I give my 9 year old son:

1) Get what you want to get.
2) If you can't afford it, save until you can.
3) Do not buy something just because you can buy it, you will not be happy with what you get (aka buyer's remorse).

Typically, this involves video games or some other treasure. For the most part, he's listened to me. On the times he hasn't, he hasn't been particularily pleased with his "impulsive" decision and regrets that he didn't wait (and it will take him several months to reearn the money he just spent, thus delaying the purchase of what he really wanted).

If you want a prius, go out and get one. You don't have to justify it to anyone if you can afford it. Frankly, once you've got "your new toy", I doubt you will be looking at the Fords on the road and think "Dang it! I could have save $5000 if I had only purchased that car" (unless you suddenly need $5000, then you may have those thoughts.....do you have those thoughts often? If so, buy a used car and save even more money).

A prius will sit 4 adults in the car. I've sat in the back of a prius, with the driver's seat fully back, and still had a good 2 inches of room between my knees and the back of the driver's seat (and ample head room). I would recommend that you test that out between the two cars you are interested in (unless you never plan on driving with people in the back).

Finally, there is no "hybrid premium". No one asks what the payback period is for getting a Ford Mustang with a V8 vs a 6 cylinder engine despite paying more for the V8.