Cold Fusion again?!?!?

Still a lotta "maybe" "could have would have should have" style of sentence writing in that article.

I eagerly await a breakthrough. The "conventional" means of fusion power is a huge net energy loss, hence the lack of interest in that area

Maybe they need to apply the appropriate resonance like Keanu Reeves did

 

And for his next thread, Wildkow's going to discuss the latest efforts to repeal the law of gravity.

 

This was never my claim. Go back and reread the thread. Maybe we aren't the only ones needing to brush up on reading comprehension skills. All I did was provide a short tutorial on the physics of fusion and fission.

Tom

 

Apparently, 1) Establishing a repeatable experiment, 2) publish the experiment, and 3) avoid press conferences till other labs have sucessfully repeated the experiment are three rules to be avoided at every opportunity in the cold fusion arena.

All I every see is 1) Make big press announcement, 2) Claim your experiment is submitted for publication or will be shortly, and 3) Tell everyone that is unsucessful in repeating the experiment that they are doing something wrong.

If there is an exception to this rule in the cold fusion or LENR arena please show me. I will listen.

 

Okey-pokey

'Cold fusion' rebirth? New evidence for existence of controversial energy source

I logged on to my ACS account to verify the press release, it jives. As the American Chemical Society requires its members - such as myself - to not publicly disclose member-only data, I won't. The link I posted is public domain so I will reference to it.

I will start by informing readers the link is copywrited by the American Chemical Society

"Low-energy nuclear reactions could potentially provide 21st Century society a limitless and environmentally-clean energy source for generating electricity, researchers say"

"It is among 30 papers on the topic that will be presented during a four-day symposium, "New Energy Technology," March 22-25, in conjunction with the 20th anniversary of the first description of cold fusion."

Please note the key words: four day symposium "New Energy Technology." The LENR article you started this thread off with, was presented under those auspices. Although you may not have claimed LENR was a potential energy source, it is EXPLICITELY stated in the symposia public release to be so

"Our finding is very significant," says study co-author and analytical chemist Pamela Mosier-Boss, Ph.D., of the U.S. Navy's Space and Naval Warfare Systems Center (SPAWAR) in San Diego, Calif. "To our knowledge, this is the first scientific report of the production of highly energetic neutrons from an LENR device."

Note: SPAWAR is very much interested in new high energy sources for energy weapons. Eg: a lot of HAARP funding was for this purpose.

"
They cited other evidence for nuclear reactions including X-rays, tritium (another form of hydrogen), and excess heat. Meanwhile, Mosier-Boss and colleagues are continuing to explore the phenomenon to get a better understanding of exactly how LENR works, which is key to being able to control it for practical purposes.
Mosier-Boss points out that the field currently gets very little funding and, despite its promise, researchers can't predict when, or if, LENR may emerge from the lab with practical applications. The U.S. Department of the Navy and JWK International Corporation in Annandale, Va., funded the study."


There are countless such announcements made from a variety of trade/industrial groups regarding advanced research in many different areas. It is truly unfortunate the mainstream media picked up on this, took it entirely out of context (Of course, faux news would *never* take something out of context, would they?), and now we have a minor fuster cluck to deal with


I'm not opposed to LENR research, although some things the ACS does I do NOT support, this area I fully support. Let's not get all excited over it until it - maybe - amounts to more than a hill of beans

Again, the entire symposia of the ACS was for the express purpose of, and I quote, "New Energy Technology." If you had bothered to follow through on the links provided by Fox, you would have discovered that

In the broader context of the American Chemical Society's 237th National Meeting, where she presented along with 30 other folks during the symposium's "New Energy Technology" track, which ran March 22-25.

Regrettably, I couldn't attend this year due to work and scheduling conflicts. However, according to how I read the ACS rules, I *am* allowed to bring a guest to such meetings. How about next year I drag you along?


You're comfortable with chemical engineering, correct? Not scared of FFT's, partial derivatives, etc?

'Cold fusion' rebirth? New evidence for existence of controversial energy source

"The report, which injects new life into this controversial field, will be presented here today at the American Chemical Society's 237th National Meeting. It is among 30 papers on the topic that will be presented during a four-day symposium, "New Energy Technology," March 22-25,"

New

Energy

Tech-no-lo-gy

You first!

As a chemical engineer with 20 years of petrochemical experience, perhaps I should have phrased it like this: [Sarcasm Mode = ON] Thanks for reminding me about that technology given how I use the s*** almost daily must have slipped my pea brain sized mind [Sarcasm Mode = OFF]

'Cold fusion' rebirth? New evidence for existence of controversial energy source

"It is among 30 papers on the topic that will be presented during a four-day symposium, "New Energy Technology," March 22-25, in conjunction with the 20th anniversary of the first description of cold fusion."

New

Energy

Tech-no-lo-gy

Sigh ....

 

As a fully paid member of the American Chemical Society (To reiterate and I apologize for boring you to tears: I have a degree in Chemical Engineering and 20 years experience in the petrochemical field) I have attended ACS conventions in the past

I like going to conventions. First off all, it's incredibly easy to get lucky every single night. You could go to a Door To Door Vacuum Salesman Convention and STILL get laid!

But seriously, I look at this more-or-less low key symposium as being picked up on by the mainstream media, taken COMPLETELY out of context, and blabbered all over the world.

Quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if this woman has her career hit a brick wall, all thanks to Fox News.

I got the updates from the ACS convention. Plenty of exciting new things in the field of mixed oxidant disinfection safety, polymer research, organic fuel production, etc etc etc but was any of *that* covered by faux news or any of the mainstream media

Uh-uh, nope

Yeah, I get worked up over s*** like this. Especially when a certain individual goes completely off into Loony Land Left Field over a blurb that is covered by faux news, and for all I know by The Rush Himself

 

A year ago I spent some time seeing what has been published for cold fusion research. It was surprising that the vast majority of stuff published was not by physicists, but by various chemical and material specialists. Absolutely nothing against these specialists, but unfortunately they sidestepped all physics explanations of the mechanism and focused on the slightly positive energy results of some setup they had created, leaving it to someone else to actually figure out what was going on. This looks very similar, start with a setup and show some effect that supports cold fusion/LENR, but no detailed physics mechanisms described that would cause it.

 

Actually, the majority of such usually low-key announcements are from those in the field of chemical engineering and material engineering.

These scientists are, in my opinion, mostly honorable folks who may have genuinely stumbled across something. That's why I truly love the field of science, the potential for discovering all sort of neat stuff

What I do NOT like is the political bulls*** that has infiltrated every facet of our society. Seems every little corner has its own Old Boys Club, so if you don't kiss a** or suck c***, you never get anywhere

Sorry about that harsh description, but that's how I see it. If I'm wrong, and just being negative over nothing, please correct me. As an engineer, I'm well aware of my fallible nature

I don't pretend to have invented the entire field of Chemical Engineering or Computer Science, and deflect legitimate criticism as if I had a Klingon Force Field wrapped around myself. I leave that skill to O'Reilly and Rush

The whole point to outfits like ACS is to disseminate ideas, subject them to the peer process, hopefully get others thinking. I prefer the conventions stay a lot more low key though

Look at what a fuster cluck this thread turned into, all thanks to a faux cable "news" channel picking up one little tidbit, and an individual taking it completely out of context

To reiterate: this idea was presented in the symposium track on new energy ideas. Hence, the belief it *may* lead to a new source of energy.

Just the way these sort of things work, the vast majority of such "discoveries" go nowhere at all. Thanks to various symposia, peers review the work, reach the conclusion it was already "discovered" by another person, or close enough in results to be the same, they forget about it, and move on

And yes, I'm well aware of certain techniques using a similar process in the field of petrochemicals and geo-petro exploration. I'm the first to admit I'm usually the only person who "understands" my "wi" and "humor."

In the future, when I'm being sarcastic, especially with certain ... ahem .... forum members, I'll use something like this:

[Sarcasm Mode = ON] yeah as a chemical engineer I work with this s*** practically every single F Bomb day, but thanks for jogging my memory anyway excuse me while I relearn how to tie my shoelaces again [Sarcasm Mode = OFF]

Of course, if you have any hints on how I should handle a certain ... ahem ... forum member, please let me know. I'm not very good at dealing with people who march off into left field claiming the sun rises in the west, the earth is flat as a pancake, etc etc

I need a drink ....

 

Kow seems obsessed with asses in his last few posts. The Kow method of presenting an idea is when someone disagrees with you, tell him to pull his head out of his nice person. That saves him the bother of reading what you posted. Sometimes he seems a sort of understudy to the D-man, though to give credit where credit is due (not sure which of the two I'm complimenting here) Kow blows his hot air not nearly so forcefully as the D-man does.

 

I'm drawn to the threads that discuss science and technology. That's why I'm here now, as well as many others. I was hoping that my previous comment was not misunderstood, the gist of it being that there is a surprising lack of any physics papers on the subject....NOT any negative implication of any sort about chemical or material experts.

Educate them....and realize that it is impossible to do in one post, so patience and self-dicipline is essential.....but you know this already.

 

I now have a high degree of respect for grade school teachers, in that they must feel the same way trying to get across a fairly simple concept to a group of ... prefrontal cortex challenged children

Please note the following is copywrited The American Chemical Society

American Chemical Society - The world's largest scientific society.

Cold fusion rebirth? New evidence for existence of controversial energy source

Now, going to the above link, let's carefully read along, children

"Researchers are reporting compelling new scientific evidence for the existence of low-energy nuclear reactions (LENR), the process once called “cold fusion†that may promise a new source of energy."

That

May

Promise

A

New

Source

Of

Energy

"Low-energy nuclear reactions could potentially provide 21st Century society a limitless and environmentally-clean energy source for generating electricity, researchers say."

Low

Energy

Nuclear

Reactions

you get the drift ...

"It is among 30 papers on the topic that will be presented during a four-day symposium, “New Energy Technology,†March 22-25, in conjunction with the 20th anniversary of the first description of cold fusion."

Yes, she presented on the symposium track "New Energy Technology"

"
Overview, update on LENR by editor of New Energy Times – Steve Krivit, editor of New Energy Times and author of “The Rebirth of Cold Fusion,†will present an overview of the field of low energy nuclear reactions, formerly known as “cold fusion.†A leading authority on the topic, Krivit will discuss the strengths, weaknesses, and implications of this controversial subject, including its brief history. (ENVR 002, Sunday, March 22, 8:55 a.m. Hilton, Alpine Ballroom West, during the symposium, “New Energy Technology)"


Steve Krivit also made a presentation during the American Chemical Society conference


I strongly encourage you to contact the persons listed in the link to VERIFY these "unverifiable sources." Of course, since these "sources" didn't come from faux news, O'Reilly, Rush "Pass me a joint and some blow" Limbaugh, and god himself, perhaps they will never be good enough to pass muster with you

I really hope the ACS doesn't cancel my membership over this ....

 

At one time, didn't we commit people like that to asylums, where they would receive proper medication and blankly stare out the wire mesh reinforced glass?

 

Oh, no no, that wasn't how I took it. The whole point of having an HONEST debate about topics like these is to gain better understanding of science

The chemical engineer, or the material engineer, may uncover something, realize "hmmm something is going on here, but I know not what it is" and pass it along for peer review.

Usually, another smart person, say a physicist, will ring up the engineer and say "naw, we already know about that. Thanks for writing though"

That only works if the OP is genuinely interested in receiving an honest, perhaps blunt answer that the OP perhaps doesn't want to hear

Eg: if I had suggested "the mystical, magical friendly guy who lives in the sky invented it, but the nasty mean guy with a forked tail and horns who lives in the ground doesn't want us to know about it" I'm willing to bet a bottle of gin the OP would have accepted that answer

I'm just waiting for the fact that by now posting American Chemical Society content, straight from their site - with due notice of copyright source - it *still* won't be a good "verifiable" source

 

ACS, if you're reading this and considering canceling my membership, please have mercy.

I was under considerable duress

 

They don't cancel memberships. Right now there is a person heading for your house, carrying a large spray bottle of hydrofluoric acid.

Tom