SF Cabbies forced to retire their hybrids at 300k miles

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by efusco, Apr 2, 2009.

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  1. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Shamelessly stolen from CleanMPG news. Basically 15 San Francisco hybrid Escapes have been forced into retirement at 300k miles. They've saved drivers an average $9000/year and are still going strong, but law requires that cabs be retired from service at 300k miles no matter what condition they're in. San Francisco's hybrid taxis prove their worth - Los Angeles Times San Francisco's first 15 hybrid taxis, all Ford Escapes, have made it to about the 300,000-mile mark -- nearing the city's official taxi retirement age -- and are being taken off the road. Their longevity shows that hybrid technology is more durable than previously imagined; they also have saved drivers about $9,000 a year, depending on gas prices and number of shifts driven. "Ford never really intended this vehicle to be used as a taxi," Gillespie said as he tooled around the city's hilly Pacific Heights neighborhood in the silent hybrid. "We adopted it because I was desperate to find a vehicle that would save drivers fuel costs and save greenhouse gas emissions." The hybrid Escapes were introduced with fanfare at a City Hall news conference in February 2005, touted by Mayor Gavin Newsom as the nation's first fleet of hybrid taxis. Ten were owned by San Francisco Yellow Cab and five by Luxor Cab. Today, 14% of San Francisco's 1,438 taxis are hybrids. Fifteen percent of New York's 13,237 cabs are, according to a spokesman for the city's Taxi and Limousine Commission, which just passed a hybrid incentive plan.
     
    #1 efusco, Apr 2, 2009
  2. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Note, also, that the guy featured in the story, Paul Gillespie, came by the thread and made a post. Hopefully he'll come back to answer some questions.
     
    #2 efusco, Apr 2, 2009
  3. Genoz World

    Genoz World ZEN-style living

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    wow, those ford escapes are that good? that's toyota miles territory!
     
    #3 Genoz World, Apr 2, 2009
  4. paprius4030

    paprius4030 My first Prius

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    If Ford was smart they would make a major advertising campaign about this. Ford remembers a better idea or something like that.
     
    #4 paprius4030, Apr 2, 2009
  5. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Way to go, Ford!

    300,000 miles regardless of condition? Seriously?? That's only 3 years... maybe 4. If they're in tip-top condition, why not run them to the ground? Are the cab companies expecting to resell the vehicles?
     
    #5 Tideland Prius, Apr 2, 2009
  6. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    I certainly hope Ford's marketing department is all over this. It would be good for Ford and hybrids in general.
     
    #6 TonyPSchaefer, Apr 2, 2009
  7. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I'd like to know what repairs (besides scheduled maintenance) were performed. With 15 vehicles in that fleet, how many transaxles, traction batteries, inverter coolant pumps, suspension parts, etc. had to be replaced?
     
    #7 Patrick Wong, Apr 2, 2009
  8. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Full hybrids with eCVT are proving to be reliable, no surprise there! Simple mechanic reduces the number of moving parts.

    Ford buy the hybrid transaxle from the same supplier that Toyota does.
     
    #8 usbseawolf2000, Apr 2, 2009
  9. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I looked at the FEH portion of GreenHybrid to see what problems have been reported. It's kind of funny to see that FEH problems are very similar to problems that Prius owners report. I suppose that is not surprising since the cars share a similar architecture. See for example:
    "Stop Safely Now" - Page 11 - GreenHybrid - Hybrid Cars

    It appears that "Stop Safely Now" is the FEH equivalent of seeing the Red Triangle of Death (Master Warning Light) and the hybrid vehicle or traction battery icons appear in the Prius MFD.

    Looks like the inverter coolant pump (aka motor electronics coolant system pump or MECS) on FEH is a common trouble area, just like Prius.

    A couple of FEH traction battery failures reported on Edmunds.com:
    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f16fe2e/20
     
    #9 Patrick Wong, Apr 2, 2009
  10. viking31

    viking31 Member

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    So what's the big deal? Why don't they just go out and buy new Escapes? If they are actually saving money overall with the Hybrids then it should be an easy choice on what vehicle to purchase next. Why should the Hybrids receive a special exemption while the vast majority of cabbies driving conventional automobiles are required to purchase new vehicles at 300K?

    300K miles does not sound to me to be an unreasonable limit for a automobile to be retired from commercial service. It may still be OK for private ownership (for me no, would you want to depend a former taxi automobile with 300K of city driving miles?? I'll pass on that one) as all the risks would be assumed by the owner, but the standards for commercial use must be much higher to ensure the safety and level of service the paying public expects.

    Rick
    #4 2006
     
    #10 viking31, Apr 3, 2009
  11. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Just that the "big deal" is that the nay-sayers have talked long and hard about how you have to replace the batteries every 100k miles and other crap like that. I think it's just ironic that the hybrids are having to be forced out of service well before they are no longer fit for service.

    It's a huge acknowledgement of the durability of hybrids.
     
    #11 efusco, Apr 3, 2009
  12. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    The reason cabs are not allowed to exceed a set mileage is not due to engine wear or drive-train wear but is due to normal wear on suspension, door hinges, seats, carpets, door trims and seat belts.

    During the life of a cab the interior, carpets brakes seats doors etc are operated far more often than a private or even company owned vehicle. These vehicles are visitors first contact outside the airport on arrival in your state. A new visitor to a city who gets in a worn tired cab will quickly form the opinion that the city is worn and tired. There is no reason the Escape Hybrids can't be replaced with new Escape Hybrids, they still make them don't they?
    Other cabs are also forced out of service long before they are no longer fit for service. I'm guessing most customers would prefer that to long after they are no longer fit for service.
    If a company was saving $9000 per car per year for 3 years then they have saved enough to buy a new Ford Escape Hybrid, and look at the bright side, right now is a great time to buy a new hybrid!!
     
    #12 patsparks, Apr 3, 2009
  13. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Germany used to have a law, and I assume they still do, that limited taxis to new Mercedes. I recall that they couldn't be over a year old, but that could be wrong. What I do remember is that they were all brand new, with manual transmissions, and the drivers drove them like we were in a race.

    Tom
     
    #13 qbee42, Apr 3, 2009
  14. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    I can certainly understand requiring that an old car be put through a close inspection before it is allowed to continue public service, but arbitrary mileage limits are silly, and just stink of pre-planned obsolescence.

    Part of environmentalism is minimizing waste.
     
    #14 SageBrush, Apr 3, 2009
  15. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    No, no, think of it as re-use. These retired taxis will replace filthy beater vehicles. Everyone wins.
     
    #15 richard schumacher, Apr 3, 2009
  16. zenMachine

    zenMachine Just another Onionhead

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    I wonder how much these retired hybrid taxis could sell for...
     
    #16 zenMachine, Apr 3, 2009
  17. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Resale value of FEH should be much higher than the Crown Vics.
     
    #17 usbseawolf2000, Apr 3, 2009
  18. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    See? Not all Fords are bad. :madgrin:
     
    #18 dogfriend, Apr 3, 2009
  19. blamy

    blamy Member

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    Aren't the Ford's using the Hybrid Synergy Drive systems bought from Toyota and the primary reason we can't get a Rav4 with HSD? (Competition between similar models).
     
    #19 blamy, Apr 3, 2009
  20. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Ford developed their own system, which turned out to be nearly identical to Toyota's. As a result, the two companies decided to engage in cross licensing to avoid a protracted and expensive legal battle.

    Tom
     
    #20 qbee42, Apr 3, 2009
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