Went out and test drove every hybrid car: here's my thoughts

I've read nothing but good reviews for the Ford Fusion. Glad Ford got it right. Hope they can capitalize on the good publicity.

 

To the OP, that's great that you tried all of these out. I've only driven my Prius, the 2010 Prius briefly 2x, the HyCam for work 2 days (as a loaner) and the NAH a bunch of times (my mom has one).

Yep, the Altima hybrid definitely is the fastest amongst the bunch. The power difference between my Prius and the NAH is night and day. Actually, the EPA #s of 35/33, 34 combined is an improvement over 4 cylinder automatic Altima, even on the highway. That latter is rated 23/31, 26 combined.

In Consumer Reports testing, here's what they got:
4 cylinder CVT: 18/33, 25 overall
hybrid: 27/36, 32 overall

Well, the HyCam is heavier and a lot more powerful (188 hp) than the Insight, Civic Hybrid and Prius. The HyCam, not surprisingly felt a lot more powerful than my Prius. The Civic Hybrid in all the acceleration tests I've seen is for some reason significantly slower than the the Prius (despite idential HP ratings and very similar weight). The HyCam would leave it in the dust.

My loaner HyCam had the nav system and premium stereo. The stereo was EXCELLENT for a non-luxury car and it blows away the "premium" stereo in my Prius. I also liked how its MFD showed you mileage in 1 minute intervals (vs. 5 in the 2nd gen Prius) and how the bar graph didn't reset when you shut the car off.

FWIW, the HyCam did somewhat better than the NAH in Most fuel-efficient cars.

The HyCam's suspension is considerably softer than my Prius and the car felt larger and less nimble (handling-wise) than my Prius.

For me (w/o knowing the price of the 2010 Prius), if my Prius were to get totalled and I had to replace it w/a new car, I'd probably consider the NAH (due to the $2350 tax credit), Fusion (after the 1st model year, but it seems spendy), and the 2010 Prius.

 

Yeah, you're right. The EPA highway # on the Malibu Hybrid is 1 mpg higher than the NAH. I just looked at the CR results on the Malibu Hybrid and they are 18/38, 27 overall.

However, in 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid vs. Camry Hybrid, Altima Hybrid, and Malibu Hybrid - Sedans/Comparison Test/Reviews/Car and Driver - Car And Driver (download the Fuel Economy chart), the Malibu Hybrid was the worst on their highway loop. I do think it's a little unfair that they gave the NAH 3rd considering how well it did in terms of performance (but poorly in refinement, which I tend to agree with) because of the $2350 tax credit on the NAH vs. $0 for the HyCam. The ICE shutdown and startup and power transition between the two on the NAH are noticeably harsher than on my Prius and the HyCam. Nissan seems very aggressive about shutting down the ICE. (It's nice that there is an ICE off (EV mode) indicator in the dish).

Do keep in mind that the Malibu hybrid is only 164 hp combined vs. 198 hp combined for the NAH. In the above review, the Malibu hybrid had the dubious distinction of worst acceleration and fuel economy of the 4.

Regarding FFH vs. NAH pricing, hmm. They aren't priced the same in terms of MSRP ($27270 for FFH vs. $26650 for NAH) but their invoices are within $12.

However, looking at Edmunds, the TMV in my area (95120) shows the FFH going for MSRP vs. $1484 below MSRP on the NAH BEFORE the $2000 incentive. With destination charge and incentive, the "Customer Cash Adjusted True Market Value" for the NAH is $23861. The TMV for the FFH is $27995. The incentive ($2000 cash back) is also mentioned at http://local.nissanusa.com/crossregional/index.html.

The tax credit on the FFH is now $1700 ("Ford's Fusion-Mercury Milan Hybrids OK'd for $3,400 Federal Tax Credit" Green Car Advisor) vs. $2350 for the NAH.

So, in my book, the FFH is the spendy one. Assuming Edmunds' TMVs are right, the NAH is $4784 cheaper.

I am curious to drive the FFH. I've only seen it at CES in January 09 and the Detroit auto show. At CES, I had the chance to play w/Sync and plugged my iPod into it via USB to try out the voice commands.

Hopefully you can hold out long enough to try the 2010 Prius. The EV, eco, and power mode buttons and charge/power screen (http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/2010-toyota-prius-first-drive/1450573/) are very compelling to me. I'm guessing I could eke out 55+ lifetime mpg w/my commute in a 2010 Prius w/help of those aids vs. my current 46 mpg lifetime on my 06 Prius.

 

IMHO, OP is way too harsh on my HyCam. Yeah, it drives like a boat, but it's a very comfortable boat! If all you need to do is go down the highway for hours at time without it wearing you down, the HyCam is your car. It has plenty of power, can go in a straight line with 1-finger on the wheel, has a decent stereo, and can easily get 40 MPG on the highway.

No way would I put the civic ahead of the Hycam if I'm comparison shopping sedans for their usual purpose. If I need to save bucks, and want kicks, I'd sooner get a fit or a mini (but I'd test the insight first!).

Given that the NAH is only available in limited quantities in like 3 states, I'm not sure it counts, but I would definitely give it a test drive if it were around.

I'd also test the ford if I were in the market for another sedan, which I'm not. My non-driving first impressions from the auto show were that I didn't like the interior and didn't like the exterior styling. Of course I used to drive a 2004 Prius, so I obviously have no taste whatsoever! If it really does get better mileage, which seems to need more real world confirmation, I would probably give Ford the benefit of the doubt on reliability.

I personally want/need a high MPG runabout hatchback commuter/city car. Given all the comfort improvements, the size, the improved handling, the whizbang SR or AT packages, and the hopefully still reasonable pricing, 2010 Prius seems like THE car for that purpose. Those people needing to save $ can go buy a used or 2009 Prius, but I want the latest, greatest toy!

 

The NAH is (unfortunately) only available in 9 states per 2009 Nissan Altima Sedan and Hybrid Specs - Nissan USA (click on the 1 under HYBRID): California, New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Vermont, Oregon, Rhode Island, Maine and New Jersey.

I think Oregon got recently added as NAH availability used to be California + 7 CARB states.

 

We've only had our '09 Prius for a couple of weeks, and we really love it. For us, our top criteria were: FE and hatchback. I wanted the fuel efficiciency, my wife had to have a hatchback.

We almost went with a non-hybrid (the Fit), after test driving several cars. The Fit was certainly much cheaper in price. But we both noticed the harsh ride, and engine & road noise. Although it was really fun to drive hard, we both realized that if we went on any kind of a long trip, that we would quickly grow weary of the noise and ride.

Once I decided to not let the price differential be a deciding factor between the Fit and Prius, then there was no contest. The Prius is very comfortable on the road, and very quiet. But it still handles well, has luxury features only found on much more expensive cars, has better fit and finish than the Fit, and has the HSD.

If I had to do it again now that the FFH is out? I'd still go with the Prius because of our need for a hatchback. But if I were looking for a sedan, then the FFH would be a serious contender.

 

Actually I thought my coworkers HyCam rode very poorly when I rode in it for a few hours a couple weeks ago. I expected it to ride more like my Lexus ES but I found it pretty firm...

 

The theory of relativity strikes again! In Edmond's InsideLine comparison of the Gen II Prius and the HyCam, they described the HyCam ride as follows:

"The Camry Hybrid's ride is definitely the quieter and softer of the two, although perhaps a little too soft and buoyant in the estimation of some of us because of insufficient damping."

I agree with them, but for highway driving, the ride is fine. Around town, it can be a little bouncy, and is not a float above the clouds but still have your feet on the ground kind of car. Way better than Gen II Prius, but definitely not an old school Cadillac or new school Lexus (and as OP pointed out, definitely not a Beamer either!).

 

I have to agree with ggood. Camry hybrid has 3.0 liter V6-like power with more noise insulation than the Civic hybrid. Did you know HCH is slower than the Insight? If you are going to brush away the road noise due to tires, why not brush away the handling / floating feel due to the suspension? TCH is 4 seconds faster than HCH in 0-60.

HCH gas engine is louder than Prius because it has to work harder due to minimal MG assist. I have not driven the Insight yet but because it is geared lower than the HCH, I would expect even louder.

Insight seems to define econohybrid and HCH is a level above it. TCH is a very well refined mid-size sedan. Putting the hybrid versions aside, would you pick the Civic over the Camry?

 

The TCH is "ordinary" like a Crown Vic is ordinary. The taxi
drivers who get 'em, love 'em. And it give them automatic
anti-idling policy compliance without having to think.
.
The Fusion sounds pretty sweet but as I said before, it's a sedan.
I'm holding out for that mythical minivan and still enjoying
the heck out of my '04 in the meantime.
.
_H*

 

Sorry, my experience and measurements contradict your statement. Can you explain where your information came from? Also in my multi-year experience, under full throttle acceleration the HCH-II achieves full electric assist as early as 2500 RPM and full torque earlier than that.

Unless you can be more specific as to the conditions under which the noise will be higher in the HCH-II than what it is on the Prius-II, then I suspect I cannot relate to it either. Please note, I am pretty sure that my ability to confirm any of what I say is not undermined by a flaw in any car since I own multiples of each.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

Boy, that would be excellent! A HSD Prius Minivan! I really like minivans, have had several. To me they are the most versatile vehicles. Need to transport 7 people in comfort? No problem. Need room for transporting large items? Only a pickup would have more room. Now if it could get 50+ mpg.....Wow!

My current V6 powererd, big & boxy Chevy Uplander gets an all around average of about 21 mpg. That includes plenty of back road driving in a hilly area, as well as highway driving. On the highway it gets over 26 mpg at 65 to 70 mph. And I don't drive it really trying to keep the FE up.

So I would think that a HSD based minivan with good aerodynamics could quite possibly get over 50 mpg (assuming it wasn't carrying a heavy load).

 

From my own driving experience as well as being in the rear passenger seat (rear). Acceleration from dead stop is more noisy in HCH with say 50% on the accelerator. The first thing that caught my attention is as soon as I release the brake, the ICE starts with a bit of vibration. The ICE sound continue to raise as I press the accelerator, as expected from a CVT. IMA use mechanical CVT therefore it relies on fast revving of the ICE to translate higher torque at the wheels. HSD relies on high torque MG2 to transmit higher torque at the wheels, giving the ICE freedom to rev at only necessary RPM.

I also got the impression that the engine working very hard during merging into the highway. It makes sense because HCH ICE red lines 26% (6,300 vs. 5,000) higher than the Prius and HCH ICE has smaller displacement.

In general HCH ICE has to work harder than Prius because:

1) HCH ICE hp to MG hp ratio is higher; therefore ICE has to do more work at longer period.
2) HCH HV battery is smaller; therefore MG assist is limited.
3) Generator power is limited therefore; less energy gets captured for later MG assistant during acceleration.