Mitsubishi i MiEV First Impressions

Or even a first car for child-less families!

I was a bit non-plussed to find how slow the charging would be even on 220V. They're tring to make it as grid-friendly as possible at the expense of faster charging.

Likely very well - similar to how all the other production cars have done... but better since this is with Li.

 

once again....

1) an awesome EV option... but for SOMEONE ELSE!~!. when it gets to the US then talk, until then, i dont want to hear about how good EVERYONE but us has it. there are dozens of EV's just as good as this one!! just need to live in Europe, or Asia, or...

2) people who completely discount the technology because it does not serve 100% of their driving needs (like what car does??...one of my needs is economical and clean)

3) as far as charging convenience. i will take 110 any day, since its the most available. super charging stations are unfortunately not going to be a widely available option anytime soon. 110 is here now. in my town, there is nearly 2 dozen places (with potentially thousands more) where i can top off my charge TODAY

 

My wife and I work at the opposite end of the island. She now takes public transportation. The only way is to move the job.

 

220v is more efficient for charging than 110.

Also, for future EV charging stations in public areas, you don't want them at 110, because someone will end up using that plug for something else.

I would not be surprised if a 110v charging station gets used by contractors to charge their tools, people playing ghetto blasters, municipal workers...or the homeless to plug in their laptops using the free WiFi.

At 220v, at least the plug is different - like for our ovens or clothes dryers.

Can you imagine if in 2012 - we finally have a few EV or PHEV options, all using different plug standards?

 

Remains to be seen because of the AC/heating system impact on range. So what I wonder is what the range will be in a commute where the heat or air conditioning are required. (This would include moderate temps in the rain with attendant window fogging.)

The negative aspect of EV-only in such situations is that range will be further reduced at lower speeds or when stuck in crawling traffic. This is the same reason that running one's lights in the Prius has very little impact on mileage at highway speeds, but can cost ~2% in stop and go city commuting.

While I don't see this as a show stopper, it does have the potential to create some problems for those who hope to regularly use the last third of the range or so.

 

It can be, yes. The iMiEV is limiting the rate to 9A, however.

I don't have to imagine it - that's exactly what we have for today's EVs. We will have a single standard going forward, however, so that won't happen again. Well, it won't happen except for the differences between 110V and 220V - that will always be a difference, and 110V charging will not go away since it is the perfect emergency overnight charge situation that every EV should be capable of.

That was my point. HVAC impact isn't what so many people assume it to be. I've owned three production EVs - all designed for the 1996 model year (we could likely do better today!). In those cars, I can get the same range with heat or AC on if I simply drive ONE mph slower. This is not a big deal. In fact those of us who drive these EVs every day don't worry about turning the HVAC on. It has proved to be nothing to worry about - even though I hear about all the scary range reduction printed in the press regularly.

I'll go on record as guessing that if all else is equal, the range will be reduced by no more than 5%... or 3.5 miles in the case of the iMiEV. Drive 1 mph slower, and the range is not reduced at all. This again, was my point. We DO drive our EV in freezing temps, and in very high temps - and we do it over-loaded and on the freeway. I'm not guessing or grabbing numbers out of the air. I've lived with EVs every day for almost nine years now.

Absolutely not. Slower speed in an EV means higher range in every case. I have been in stop-and-go traffic in 110° heat with the AC on high. And every minute I creep along, my range increases. Speed (air resistance) is the biggest hit on range - by far. If you are at a dead stop, obviously range decreases as you get zero miles per energy unit. NO surprise there.

I can't make the math work for that. Adding just 70-110W of lighting can't cost 2% in range on the Prius. There must be something else at work here.

Not in my experience (of about 100,000 miles of EV driving).

 

Darell,

What do you mean by "emergency overnight charge situation"?
Won't overnight charge be standard practice, especially if and where there is "time of day metering".

Just read your "EVs won't work" Both informative and funny.
Should be a sticky in the EV Forum.

Also just noticed on your website that you have a picture of your EV1 dated 2003.
I thought they were all "repossessed" in 2001?

 

And you're right! However, GM soon realized that many of the cars hadn't been on the road quite long enough to qualify for the clean air credits that they set out to accumulate. Oops. They then set a handful of the pre-leased cars free again (for a shorter term). So mine was a used lease, and I was one of the lucky ones to get one of the few re-leases right at the end there.

 

Having lived in the Bay area as a kid, I suspect what you are seeing is climate based. It's the mildest climate I've ever lived in by far (and I've lived in a lot of places.) Your climate is too mild to draw the conclusion you are making for others. The same is not likely to be true in the Midwest or Northeast in winter, nor in the South in summer. I can sure see the hit in Prius operation. Good luck driving slow enough when you need to keep your windows defogged! The math just doesn't work in the Prius, you just can't compensate for such a large hit.

It's 95-135W, not 70-110W, you have not included the other lights that go on when you turn on your head lights. (Those with the HID's have 95, but I do my calcs at 135 because that is what I have and appears to be the most common.) At 30 mph average (including time spent at lights/stuck in traffic) that works out to 1.86 kwh for a 9 gallon fill @ 46 mpg. What I've seen quoted for the Prius is in the range of 0.25 kwh per mile. So 1.86 kwh works out to about 7.5 miles.

I doubt the average commute for us is even hitting 30 mph based on distance and typical travel times.

Now add in 800 watts for a heater in winter and you are going to see some serious hits. At 30 mph average that alone is 0.8 kwh/(30 miles/1 hour) = 0.027 kwh/mile. That works out to more than a 10% range reduction.

As I've said, I don't see this as a show stopper, but it will be an issue for those with longer commutes. And of course, this also makes lunch time errands more problematic.

 

We have something in common! I used to live in the Bay Area as well. I don't live there now, however - though I'm close. I do live in an area that regularly sees over 110° in the summer. If you're living somewhere that gets hotter than that, the only thing I can suggest is: MOVE.

Yes, some places get hotter, and some places get colder. We go from the high 20's to the low 100's here. We also see some big wind that takes WAY more toll on range than HVAC usage.

Except for the millions of people who live in MORE mild conditions than I do. Where I live now may seem mild to you - it seems extreme to my friends and family in the Bay and the LA area area who rarely see below 35 or above 90 (uh... until more recently that is!). The bottom line - it is different for everybody. And it just points out that *neither* of us should generalize for the entire population. All I can realistically offer is my direct experience. And that comes from living in the central valley of CA. Take or or leave it, it is all I've got.

My intent is not to draw consclusions for others - that seems to be more what you are doing. I'm offering up my own, real-world data and refuting your *generalization* that using the HVAC system will result in a huge range hit. It may well be true for some people in extreme cases. But for millions of drivers in milder climates, it is not an issue - as I have shown.

 

Perhaps it is just me, but do they really need to appeal to the masses with a car like this - I would imagine that Mitsubishi would be thrilled with a solid niche market. It is not for everyone, but does it need to be? If gas pops .25, .50 or 1.00 how long do you think the waiting list will be?

Rob - I heard that Mitsubishi was holding off on bringing this to the US until there was some consensus on a common standard for high speed charging - did they mention this at all?

 

drawbacks, drawbacks, drawbacks!! u guys getting commission from GM?? oh ya thats right...even if you were supposed to, you wouldnt be paid unless its a US Treasury check...

as far as people plugging in ghetto blasters, etc... what stops people from parking in handicap areas?? WE FRICKING DO!! i admit that there are a hand full of designated plug spots around Oly that have issues with anyone parking in their plug-inspots (COSTCO~!! i hope you are reading this!!) and maybe a more prominent sign is in order... but laws that fine ICE for parking there just like parking illegally in a handicap spot should clear that up.

as far as climate change (as if this was the place to discuss this) ... i liken it to the climate control system at my work. old building, very cheaply made. overly powered HVAC system... in the summer time, depending on the location of your seat to the vents in the ceiling, you either are wearing a coat or sweating in a short sleeved shirt. (about 50% wear coats... some wear coats and blankets!! and yes, this is in summer time)...

so what it boils down to is a near instantaneous 15º temperature drop if positioned in front of one of the blowers. but that results in a very comfortable even temperature that only varies 1-2º in a seat less than 10 feet away. you really have to be there to believe it. i didnt believe it when i first started working there. now, granted this is in a pretty large room shaped like an "H" with the legs around 200 feet long broken into 4 sections all open air with cubicle dividers most of which are only about 4 feet high... makes it easy to simply stand up and have direct contact with up to a half dozen of your neighbors (this all depends on how loud you are willing to talk) or more.

 

On the contrary generalizing is exactly what you have done. Your math doesn't work as I've pointed out. You've tried glossing over this, but the numbers don't work. I've pointed out why and all I've gotten from you is the equivalent of "trust me." You haven't "shown" anything.

I, therefore, remain unconvinced. There are too many folks eager to oversell things.

Fact is there WILL be a mileage hit in the conditions I listed and it will be substantial. Good luck expecting the average user to compensate for it by minor driving adjustments.

So what I'm interested in is the reports of folks driving these particular vehicles in the Midwest in mid-winter, and in Texas in mid-summer, both places I've lived.

 

I don't have the data you desire, so the good news is that you can remain unconvinced, and really annoyed at what I'm trying to sell here. I do have year-round experience from EV drivers in Denver, Greenbay, Virginia, South Africa, Toronto, Arizona, New Mexico. But you won't want to hear it. The math won't work.

You already know the answers, so why would you be interested in the data?

 

Oh, I'm interested in data, just not the BS sales job you are pushing.

I went through the numbers and your approach was to deny they existed. It's rather easy to look at this from an engineering perspective and see the issue of conditions that will produce enlarged fixed overheads and low average speed. Yet you made the claim that driving 1 mph slower will account for that. Never mind that when stopped you can't drive slower...a key factor in traffic. Never mind that this isn't going to apply are low speeds because the frictional losses are considerably less. Never mind that you can't overcome a 10+% or even your "5%" calculated electrical load increase by driving 1 mph slower.

So back to the original point. I'm interested in hearing what the effect of range is on this particular vehicle in real world driving during the extremes of the driving season, minus the BS sales job.

 

Same as the affect on a petrol or hybrid I imagine.

 

> Oh, I'm interested in data, just not the BS sales job you are pushing.

I've learned my lesson. I'm sorry that my exerpience with EVs wasn't helpful.

 

Yup! But the response to this is most often, "But it doesn't matter that my petrol range is reduced because I have so much of it." Which of course is quite true. We waste around 75% of the energy in the tank already, so what's a little more? We can't afford to waste so much in EVs because of the traditionally more limited range.

 

Hear here, Darrel.

My entourage is very surprised that I'll be buying a iMIEV in 2011. They say, with your Prius, aren't you doing enough already?

I feel that I do so little.

And I point out that a Prius + iMIEV = a single Volt. Or how a Prius + iMIEV is less than a Lexus SUV.

I'd rather have two cars than a single extended range EV.

 

Is 2011 confirmed for Canada sales? In theory they should start being sold in Japan next month.