Better Place

ECOtality’s CEO, Jonathan Read, is a critic of Better Place’s plan to offer battery swapping. “First, it’s highly unlikely you will get a unitary [ie, one size fits all] battery among all manufacturers,†he said. “Batteries are proprietary and unique selling points for the companies—it was like herding cats just to get them all to agree to a single charging receptacle. Also, people are very personal about their vehicles and want to know that the battery they purchased and cared for is still in their car. If you could fast-charge your car in the same 10 minutes it takes to swap a battery pack, wouldn’t that make more sense?â€

 

As now, the one that generally had the shortest checkout lines of the stores within my neighborhood. Though there are a couple of stores that carry things I cannot get elsewhere, so I go to them when I want those things. I'll happily pay higher prices to avoid long lines.

And since it costs a few pennies to "fill" my electric car, a free fill would not change my shopping choices. Of course, if I needed an opportunity charge, that would be a different matter. But I'd still pay the higher price to shop and fill at the store with the shortest checkout lines. Actually, I get in and out of the grocery store so fast, that regular (slow) charging would get me about 1/10 of a mile of range while I shopped.

But I agree with you that charging stations will appear as EVs multiply on the roads. Either freebies to attract customers, or coin operated for profit. We'll probably see charging parking meters at some point: So much per hour to park, plus so much per kwh to charge. You'll pay ten times as much as your home rates, which will still be 1/4 what a gas car would cost to drive.

 

I agree 100%. I've been saying this all along. In addition to issues of the cost of swapping infrastructure.

A bad battery can leave you stranded, and people will not trust the rental batteries.

 

Well if a company with hundreds of millions of dollars and top notch executives and engineers thinks that battery swap stations are a good idea and necessary, then I'd give them the benefit of the doubt that they've down their homework on this. We'll see.

 

Batteries not Included - New York Times

yesterday the link took you right there, now you need to register to read it.

 

You are assuming that Better Place has top notch executives and engineers. Until Better Place has an extensive battery-swapping network built, and is making money I'll assume they have a dreamer that is good at getting others to part with their money.

I really don't see Better Place as any different that the multitude of start-up EV companies that build a prototype, raise capital, and then fold without ever tooling up and producing a car.

The proof is in the result, not the plan.

 

Shai Agassi's bio is impressive. He's definitely got the chops to pull this off.

 

Better Place Pops the Hood, Gears Up for All-or-Nothing Rollout

 

"So, Better Place isn’t reserving basic charging infrastructure as a fall-back business — it’s all or nothing. As Goodman and sustainability strategy chief Sven Thesen explained yesterday, the “all” scenario includes subscription packages that include three types of charging services: A slow charge overnight and during the workday (managed by Better Place to tap variable energy sources like wind and reduce peak demand), a quick (45 minutes to an hour) charge when necessary, and then automated battery swapping for when drivers are on longer trips or in a big hurry. Better Place decided battery swapping is the only way drivers will be able to stick with old habits and make a seamless switch to electric cars."

Lots of flaws in BP's logic:

First, if I can fuel my car at the equivilent of $.50/gallon ($.10/kWh), why would they assume I need "to stick old habits"? If I can save 75% or more of my fueling costs, I can learn a couple new habits (plugging in over night, planning my driving distances, all pretty easy stuff).

Second, they want to sell me a "subscription package" for my 3 possible re-charging scenarios: Over-night charging (85% of total), why do I need BP for that??? Mid-day 45 minute charges (18% of total), I expect my employer and favorite restaurant or shop will be able to provide that service (for a fee) without a "subscription". I don't want to drive to one of BP's charging stations, I want to recharge where I am!
Battery swap for longer trips. Two comments. If I know I am traveling further than my EV range, I will either schedule time for a slower charge or take the ICE that day.

Third, the infrastructure requirements for a workable battery swap is
incredibile! If I am driving my EV150 on a 250 mile trip, what are the odds there will be a swap station where I need it?

EVs will catch on slowly. The early buyers will be very willing to "plug in at night". As the numbers of EVs increase, so will the simple infrastructure improvements, every McDonalds will have 5 charging stations, if Home Depot wants my business they will provide a charge station.
Over time the recharge times will drop and the battery ranges will improve. Before BP can possibly have a swap station everywhere necessary, they will not be necessary!

I am all for EVs, but we do not need one corporation providing the infrastructure. The single biggest boost EV infrastructure needs, is to require time of day metering so that 85% of our vehicle fueling needs can come from the existing grid capacity.

 

The goal of Better Place is to replace most number of gas cars asap. You or I might be motivated to change our habits and plan more, but the average Joes and Marys may not - hindering EV sales.

BP's charging stations will be numbered in the hundreds of thousands in any metro area. The idea is that they will be where you want to park.

The software in the car will communicate with the driver and constantly gauge his/her intentions and relate the location of the most convenient swap station(s) to allow for trip completion. If they don't have enough swap stations, the plan of being able to liberate everyone from having to own a gas car will fail.

If you don't need or want to deal with Better Place, nobody will be forcing you to at any point. Better Place is betting that most people will find the service worthwhile (cheap and convenient). A side benefit, 100% of the electricity they provide will be from renewable sources. Advocates of renewable energy can rest a little easier.

I don't know if they can pull this off everywhere, but I hope they can.

 

2020 target for 350,000 electric cars - The Irish Times - Wed, Apr 29, 2009

A bold prediction - I really like it....

 

Predictions and plans and promises are all Better Places have made so far.

 

I pay 6 cents per kWh at home now. How is he going to guarantee that price for five years? Oh, I know: The contract will require me to buy from him for 5 years, but will allow him to raise the price per kWh if, in his opinion, it is justified.

Unless another company comes up with a system people like better, or a lot of places offer competitive recharging. Would you sign a contract obligating you to buy your gas from just one company for the next five years?

And he's raised how many billions of dollars to put in a charging station everywhere anybody might want one?

So the Better Place customer may have to drive 20 miles out of his way on a road trip to find a charging station, while the fellow who owns his car outright can stop at the roadside mom & pop store and have a coffee and a doughnut while their car charges, because as EVs proliferate, so will mom & pop fast-charge stations.

 

Not even BP has made that bold of a prediction (read the article to see who made it)

And BP has been installing charging points in Israel for a while now. Also, the first battery swap station will be demonstrated in Japan in early May.

 

I think it's in the neighborhood of half a billion by now. But that's also for charging points. Not bad considering Nissan-Renault won't have the cars ready for a couple years yet.

All the connections will be international standards so if on the rare occasion using a Mom and Pop operation is more convenient, go for it (but you're dreaming if you think fast charging will be available this century).

 

It's not good considering that BP is promising to install infrastructure in Israel, Denmark, Canada, and the US states of Hawaii and California. I doubt $500 million is enough to for California alone. Not only that, they are claiming that they will have all the infrastructure installed before the cars go on sale.

BP's business model has a chance in a small country like Israel, or on an island like Hawaii. I can't see how it would work at all in a very large but lightly populated country like Canada. BP claims that they will have a swap station available every 25 miles. For Israel that is only 100 stations for the entire country. In Canada 260 stations would be required for the Trans-Canadian Highway alone.

It also won't work unless all the manufacturers get on board with a single battery format. It is one thing to get Nissan-Renault to agree to make you a few cars. It is a completely different challenge to get an entire industry to agree to a single format battery.

 

Don't really know if that's money just for Denmark and Israel, probably... lot's more to come as needed.

Australia like Canada will be more challenging than Israel or Hawaii for sure. But both countries have most people living in big cities so they can start there and in a long while expand outward.

Another one or two manufacturers would be nice, in a year or two, but one is enough for now.