1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Mercedes down to CD of .24 already - .20 in 5 years

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Wooski, Apr 29, 2009.

Page 1 of 2
  1. Wooski

    Wooski New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2009
    241
    63
    15
    Location:
    London, UK
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Not strictly hybrid news, but Toyota are going to have to stop claiming that the 2010 Prius is the most aerodymanic car on the market as it now isn't. Mercedes launched the E class saloon at a 2010 matching 0.25 Cd and now the E class coupe comes in at a Cd of 0.24. Mercedes also claim that they think 0.20 will be possible within 5 years time.

    I find this all odd as I'm sure Giugiaro showed a 5 door family hatch with a Cd of 0.26 in the early 1980's:

    0203Ec Italdesign05 Zoom Photo
     
    #1 Wooski, Apr 29, 2009
  2. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2003
    5,339
    917
    251
    Location:
    Surprise, AZ (Phoenix)
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Toyota doesn't claim "THE" lowest, only that they're among the lowest.
     
    #2 HTMLSpinnr, Apr 29, 2009
  3. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    29,110
    8,589
    201
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five
    Yeah, I think the Cd 0.25 is an industry first on a production vehicle, that's something to claim... There have been numerous vehicle prototypes that were lower but never saw their way to mass production.

    From Toyota's press release:
     
    #3 Paradox, Apr 29, 2009
  4. JSH

    JSH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2007
    2,605
    140
    0
    Location:
    PDX
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Tatra produced the T77 from 1933 to 1938. The production version had a Cd of 0.212.

    [​IMG]

    We have known how to make an aerodynamic vehicle for almost a century. The problem is not engineering but styling.
     
    #4 JSH, Apr 29, 2009
  5. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    0.20 ? Wow
    I can only hope, but I'll believe it when I see it in a sub US$ 25k car.
     
    #5 SageBrush, Apr 29, 2009
  6. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    I'm skeptical the number is correct.

    Do you know what methods were used in the calc JSH ?
     
    #6 SageBrush, Apr 29, 2009
  7. JSH

    JSH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2007
    2,605
    140
    0
    Location:
    PDX
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    They used a wind tunnel owned by the German airship company Zeppelin. You can read all about Tatra at: International Streamlined Tatra Site

    Another view:

    [​IMG]
     
    #7 JSH, Apr 29, 2009
  8. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    29,110
    8,589
    201
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five

    Maybe that's why they add on the mass-produced lingo
     
    #8 Paradox, Apr 29, 2009
  9. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    4,374
    313
    0
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    look at that MD.... lower then 0,3 imposible.
     
    #9 Flying White Dutchman, Apr 29, 2009
  10. kabin

    kabin Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    167
    20
    0
    Location:
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    From the looks of the front windshield angle and window edge and fender discontinuities, I seriously doubt that thing pushed anything close to .212 CD.
     
    #10 kabin, Apr 29, 2009
  11. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,928
    16,147
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Err... the 1st Gen Insight and LS430 have a Cd of 0.25 too and the LS is a large vehicle
     
    #11 Tideland Prius, Apr 29, 2009
  12. JSH

    JSH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2007
    2,605
    140
    0
    Location:
    PDX
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    You can doubt all you want.

    The eye can be deceiving but the wind tunnel doesn't lie. From just looking at these vehicle I would never guess they have the same Cd:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    #12 JSH, Apr 29, 2009
    1 person likes this.
  13. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2003
    5,339
    917
    251
    Location:
    Surprise, AZ (Phoenix)
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    The bottom of the car can play a significant role in Cd as well. IIRC, the LS430 has a dimpled floor pan to improve airflow.
     
    #13 HTMLSpinnr, Apr 29, 2009
  14. sl7vk

    sl7vk Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2006
    518
    23
    0
    Location:
    Salt Lake City
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    That car is $%#^#ing sweet.....
     
    #14 sl7vk, Apr 29, 2009
  15. SanZan

    SanZan Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    68
    7
    0
    Location:
    Japan
    That Tatra has a worse view out the back than a Prius!!
     
    #15 SanZan, Apr 29, 2009
  16. 1SMUGLEX

    1SMUGLEX I love the smug!

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    315
    51
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    The Lexus LS 430 which has a much larger frontal area had a cd of .26 and .25 with air suspension which is amazing. The LS 460 has a .26

    Lexus has always had a low cd b/c it helps with keeping noise lower and helps fuel economy. The Original LS had a cd of .29. The BMW 735 at the time was .37!
     
    #16 1SMUGLEX, Apr 29, 2009
  17. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    15,232
    1,563
    0
    Location:
    off into the sunset
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Though not a production car, the Alfa Romeo BAT of 1954 had a cd of .19. Auto Union's 1937 streamliner must have been very low, too, and had an incredible-for-the-day 750 horsepower.
     

    Attached Files:

    #17 hyo silver, Apr 29, 2009
  18. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,928
    16,147
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Quietest car in the world, right?
     
    #18 Tideland Prius, Apr 29, 2009
  19. 1SMUGLEX

    1SMUGLEX I love the smug!

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    315
    51
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    If not the quietest among the quietest. My 450h is a tomb when just on battery power.
     
    #19 1SMUGLEX, Apr 29, 2009
  20. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,928
    16,147
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    yeah yeah =P. All I remember from my GSh test drive is that it was the first hybrid that pinned my head to the headrest upon acceleration. :D. It was also my first encounter with the Gen 5 nav system so I played around with it too.
     
    #20 Tideland Prius, Apr 30, 2009
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 2