2010 invoice pricing @ edmunds

And to the many that have expressed the idea of Saturn. Toyota does have it. It's called Scion. And I think it is a test market to see how people like it. However, everyday, I still have people tell me while looking at a Scion, "Well, you can throw that in", or "What kind of rebates do they offer if they won't let me talk you down?"

You would seriously cause a problem if Toyota all of a sudden said, Ok, we are now no haggle. Not only would you pontentially affect the value of every used toyota on the road, but you will still have people that insist on negotiating. If they can't negotiate, they will buy it somewhere else.

To take it one step further, if Toyota went to a no haggle price, how would everyone in this thread that insists on not paying TDA or holdback now feel when Toyota has a profit to the dealer of $1,000 per car, when previously it was about $500. You would make a lot of dealers happy, but alienate a majority of your previous customers.

You can start with a no haggle price on a brand new vehicle. You can't just go back and say this is the way it is now.

 

Yeah I agree, you can't just switch to it now...BUT for new brands like Scion and Saturn, I think it was a good idea to try.

That being said, I think the whole haggle thing is kinda dumb. Just pick a fair price, and let the market take care of it. If they price it too high, guess what, nobody will buy it. It saves me time. It saves you time. And in the end, it averages out.

But of course people would be upset either way....I just think the majority would be all about no-haggle...right?

 

You'd be surprised. Most say they want a no haggle price, but when it comes down to brass tacks, they really want to know that they got a good deal, not just an average deal.

 

I agree - impossible to make such a drastic move - no haggle pricing - unless it's in the business plan right from the start as in Saturn's (and from what I read here) Scion.

But I would LOVE it to be so when I purchase my Prius. Fairness is the bottom line - fair price , fair profit. Everyone wins. Worst thing is to run into someone 2 weeks after buying a car and they say "why didn't you call me - I know a guy at dealer XXX and could have saved you $400....".

And as for folks in the auto sales business as Jabber -and others I see posting here- that seem to be true professionals...THANK YOU! It is very refreshing to receive your input and candid point of view. And some of the posts here that are very unflattering of car sales - certainly some of us have had bad experiences. But some of the vile I've read is quite unbecoming of a public forum. Good to hear stories and get both sides, but let's be civil. As Jabber mentioned you will be treated in how you treat others. Like the Golden Rule.

 

Thanks for the great 1st post j_l_c ... very seldon is ones virgin post that valuable.

 

I suspect that it is not that people want to get the best price so much as they don't want someone else to get a better price. That is human nature.
If a car, or anything, is priced in my range I am happy to buy it. But I feel like a fool, or at least cheated, if someone else gets it for less just because they are pushier.

I also totally agree with Dean about the utility of the fine salesfolk who post here. Though I don't like the system you must work within, I am thankful that you take your time to provide such thoughtful information here.

 

Toyota sales are off an incredible 40% so far this year. Its a buyers market. Just wait it out. That's my advice.

 

Yes in CAT.. I sold the first Prius in our region in July 2000.

 

Why shouldn't every car sale have dealer profit included in the transaction?
How is this one-sided?
If you're getting a discount off of sticker price, what more do you want? Dealer cost?

Please tell me, if there is a total mark-up between dealer cost and MSRP of $2,000, what amount should the delaer keep as profit? Let's say it's any Toyota that's stocked on the lot now.

Nate

 

From the buyers standpoint the dealer should make no profit. The car buying process is an adversarial process and car dealerships have no one to blame put themselves for creating this process. The salesperson's job is get the customer to agree to the:

• Highest possible price for their new car
• Lowest price for their trade in
• Most expensive financing
• As many add-ons and warranties as possible.

The salesperson is financially rewarded based on how much he or she can get the person to pay.

Of course the customer knows this and a savvy buyer is suspicious of anything the salesperson says. The very way the transaction is arranged guarantees that the salesperson is working against the best interest of the buyers. Therefore anything said is suspect and most likely a lie.


You simply can't compare the salesperson at Best Buy to the salesperson at a car dealership. At Best Buy the person is there to answer questions. The car salesperson is there to take as much of the customer's money as possible.

 

I bought 7 new cars in my life.(So far). 2 were good experiences and the rest I don't want to talk about.

 

I've bought 2 new cars and neither was a good experience.

The first I feel I got a far price but it took 6 hours. (The salesman had to "take my offer to his manager" every 15 minutes and then came back with a number $50 less)

The second car I know I got royally screwed on my trade-in but since the dealership was 2 hours away I didn't really want to "walk-away" and come back later. I made the mistake of going at the end of the day when I was tired.

When I bought my Prius I went to the local Toyota dealership first but quoted price was only $50 less than new MSRP for a used Prius with 30K miles. He then tried to get me to come inside and "he would try to work a deal for me with his manager". I asked for his best price and he refused and again said I had to come inside and he would work it out with his manager. I simply walked away and down the road to an independent dealer. He had exactly the same car on his lot. (Same color, package, and within 1K miles) I asked his best price and he gave me a price $5K less than the Toyota dealership and about KBB private party. I said OK, and we had the paperwork done in 45 minutes.

 

JSH, We all know the dealer will make some profit. The customers job is to pay the least, the salesman job is to get the most. However, and Nate (Jon Lancaster) will back me up on this, A LOT of dealers have gone to a payplan that is based more on units than actual gross profit. A guy sells 15 cars in a month, he gets a flat bonus regardless of profit. 20 cars.. bigger bonus. So most salespeople just want to get you in the door, buy a car, and out the door as fast as possible so he can get back on the floor and sell another car. Right or wrong, that is the way it is going with most places right now. This leads to a poor presentation of the product though. It can also lead to a customer feeling slighted when a salesperson "assumes" you aren't buying right then and there.

Unfortunately, there is no good way around it. The best way is to find a salesperson that you enjoy working with, maybe it is his demeanor, maybe his product knowledge.. whatever. Check another dealer or 2 to keep him honest and buy the car.

 

Personally, I'm glad that dealers don't operate on a set price. It works to the advantage of savvy shoppers. The dealer can afford to take a smaller profit on some sales because he is making a larger profit on others.

If a salesman tries to sell you the line that he can't run a business on the profit margin you're offering, simply explain that you know he's getting a bigger profit from other sales to less informed buyers. This is not personal. It's business. If the dealer tries to make it personal, just walk away.

The bottom line is, dealers want to sell cars. That is priority number 1. If they only make a hundred off me, that's Ok because they sold another car and they made a few grand off the "whale" that walked in that morning. (Of course, if the car is red hot and they can make a few thousand off every car, then all bets are off).

Remember, a $50 commission might be worth it to a salesman if the sale only takes an hour. Spend three hours haggling and waffling and he's gonna want more money. Do your homework. Be firm. Be fast. Make it easy for everyone.

 

There is a very good way around it. Don't buy from a dealer. Buy a used car from a private party. There are no games, no good salesman / bad manager crap. I've never had a private negotiation take more than 5 minutes. I don't have time to waste with salesman tactics and I don't have the money to waste on new car smell.

If you want to buy from a dealer there are plenty of used car dealerships that operate with no-haggle pricing. CarMax is one and I have a great local dealership: Donohooauto in Pelham, AL, Used Cars - Home

 

That's true JSH. I was speaking of new cars only. Last time I checked, Fred down the street doesn't sell them. And Carmax? Apparently you have never been to an auction when a carmax rep is buying. He basically has a list of needed cars in his hand, and keeps his arm in the air until he wins the car. Everyone else in the lane stands around until he is done buying, then we all buy cars again. Out of every 20 cars the rep buys, he vastly overpays on 15 of them. Carmax is the last place I would ever buy a car.

But you go ahead and buy them your way. It is ultimately your checkbook. If you never buy new, there is no need to ever step foot in a dealership.

 

i have to side with jabber the dealer here. As I said earlier, we are all trying to pay our mortgage. If you are a dumbass and go in and buy a car at full mark up up and above, it is your fault for not doing your homework. I am a girl and I go in firm, not a bitch (ok maybe a bit sometimes) but I know what I want at what price, whic is FAIR, it has worked out. It is kind of like republicans and democrats. Lets get along. (democrats rule)

 

Yes, Carmax is one of the more expensive ways to buy a used car since they charge just under KBB retail. You would still pay far less than buying a new car no matter how good your negotiation skills and walk away with a lightly used car with a factory warranty. That is why I recommend buying and selling cars through face-to-face private party exchanges. No middle-man required.

You are right though, I don't have much use for a dealership. OEM parts are cheaper online and I do my own maintenance. The VW has been to the dealer twice in 184K miles. Once for warranty work (they fixed a loose tweeter and replace the ashtray lid) and once for the 100K mile service for the timing belt to be replaced. The Prius has never been to the dealer and won't unless it needs warranty work done.

 

I like car buying services.

There used to be (and may still be ... I don't remember its name) a not-for-profit car buying service that I used once. They charged a fee of around $100-150 (don't remember exact number), and got me a $32,000+ Volvo for $125 over dealer invoice. They were also extremely knowledgeable and helpful at all times and I conferred with them often during the process.

I'd consider using a free car buying service. I just checked out CarsDirect.com and it seems good. You can get its price instantly online. So for a 2009 Prius Package #2 (all prices include delivery):

MSRP: $24,300

Invoice: $23,095

CarsDirect: $23,495 ($800 below MSRP/$400 above Invoice)

Less Toyota Rebate: ($1,000)

Final CarsDirect: $22,495

 

There are many auto brokers around that will do what you described.

As for carsdirect.com, they used to give you two choices: sending you to a dealer to haggle or a no haggle price. The way my friend looks at it is that the no haggle price should be the highest you be willing to pay at a dealer via haggling (since you could get the no-haggle price w/o haggling).