2010 invoice pricing @ edmunds

Well it's not accurate to say that NO ONE is buying new cars. Some people are buying new cars, but 40% on average fewer of them. Even in a terrible economy there are still a lot of wealthy people around. Not as many as before, no, but this country is full of millionaires, and not just millionaires "on paper." Not everyone is standing in a soup line, despite what the news might have us believe.

 

That is true. But one other factor is not being mentioned. Toyota quit producing their biggest (in terms of size) models for a number of MONTHS. I usually carry 20-30 Tundras and 20-30 Siennas at any given time. I currently have 3 Tundras and 6 Siennas. And believe me, the demand is there but not the supply. And as competitive as those two markets are, people simply go down the street and pick one up rather than wait 2-3 months.

While the economy has no doubt dipped into our sales, having less product on the ground is hurting us as well. The 40% being thrown around is not necessarily all economy based. My personal sales were up 20% last month (19 up to 23 units). Those 4 extra units were new vehicles, not used.

 

So you're saying the Toyota will idle the Prius plant after the initial surge? I appreciate your side of things but it seems you always spin it to favor the dealership. Tundra and Sienna market are in high demand? Oh come on now, you don't believe that do you?

I guess that's your job.

 

So the news that Chrysler going bankrupt, that's some overblown media story? Tell me any business that can cut 40% of its sales and not be effected. The recession is real, as real as it gets. Bravo to those unaffected but to trivialize it is humorous at best.

 

Texas, where did I say anything about idling the Prius plant? I simply stated that the demand outweighs the supply right now on our largest models (again, in terms of size, not sales). If I normally sell 10 Tundras and only have 3 on the lot, I am losing sales. If I normally sell 15 Siennas, and have only 6, that equates to even more lost. Will I give away a camry, corolla, or 09 prius right now? Well, "Here is the pen and the purchase order, just fill out your own numbers"

I'll make my post clearer for you (and without trying to put a salesman spin on it). The 40% down can be attributed to not only the economy, but also the fact that we don't have as much of the product as we would normally carry. If someone walks in and says they want an XYZ, and I only have an ABC, they walk back out without purchasing something. Lost sale. I would be a fool to say that the entire 40% can be attributed to that scenario, but I personally lost 3-4 sales last month because of not being able to get the vehicles in the time frame specified by the consumer.

I apologize if I wasn't clear in my post.

 

Jabber, Do you think Toyota may be holding back production on the larger vehicles because of fear of another gas price spike this summer? This year at your dealership, what has been the best and worst selling Toyotas for you guys so far ? I saw on the news last month the suv market may soon be extinct soon because of the crossover cars everywhere. Is this true ?

 

That has nothing to do with the original point or the original quote. This is not about the state of the entire car industry, but to say that NO ONE (and that means ZERO people) is buying a new car is erroneous. Someone, somewhere is buying a new car. Why there are at least 100 people on this forum who are anxiously waiting to plunk down their $$$$ for the new 2010 Prius alone.

 

The SUV is in no danger of going extinct anytime soon. SUV's are moving from body-on-frame chassis to unibody chassis. That doesn't make them any less of an SUV.

This is a body-on-frame SUV:


2009 Chevy Trailblazer:

• 191 inches long
• 74.7 inches wide
• 72.8 inches tall
• 4353 pounds

This is the unibody "crossover" replacement:

2009 Chevy Traverse:

• 205 inches long
• 78.4 inches wide
• 72.8 inches tall
• 4790 pounds

It is bigger in every dimension but Chevy calls it a Crossover. The crossover name has no real meaning, they are just SUV's by another name. It just a name dreamed up by marketing guys to try to get around the stigma SUV has for some people.

Here is the Edmund.com "crossover" page. Most of these vehicles we just called SUV's a couple years ago.http://www.edmunds.com/finder/segme...hicledata##-1##-1~~f66||43726f73736f766572~~q

 

The sequoia market was hit hard, but tundra sales were off too. But, the tundra appeals to construction companies that have to purchase, whether they want to or not. Highlander sales were affected, especially Hybrids. Basically, anything with a sticker over $35k got hit. The Venza got a lot of looks and sales, but that was another one where supply got affected. After the initial blast of lookers/buyers where they couldn't buy one right away, they walked away and cooled off.

As far as holding back, there is no doubt they are doing it, but I don't think they are doing it due to a possible increase in fuel prices. That may play a role, but I think it is just the economy. My father-in-law said it best. If his 401K wasn't hit as hard as it was, he would be buying something right now. His rationale is that he lost 35% and if he spends what is left, he will never get the chance to make that money back. He would rather wait, recoup some of his money and spend that. Makes perfect sense to me.

SUV's extinct? It will not happen anytime soon. People love sitting up higher than everyone else. Dads that refuse to drive a minivan will want them. Numerous reason for them to stay around.

Lotta, thanks for backing me here. I'll elaborate on what you said. The problem with Chrysler is that they have made junk cars with no resale value for the last 20 years. Economy or not, they were headed into trouble. I view them as the type of people living paycheck to paycheck. If the furnace goes out, it will sink them financially. Well, the furnace and hot water heater went out at the same time for them. Double trouble. GM is in the same boat. Their cars are looking better and better, but they have to live with the stigma of not being able to go 100k miles without major work. People simply don't trust the longevity of the american car anymore. That is causing a huge hit in their sales.

 

First the vehicles built in Japan are going to be severely reduced...except for the Prius. The Yaris', Scions, 4Runners, FJs and for a while the Highlanders are being cut back for the States.

OTOH the vehicle built here like the Corolla and Camry are full blast. The Avalon and Sienna are 'ehhh' waiting for the 2010s. The RAV and the Tacoma are in good supply, better than the Tundra which is also awaiting the new 2010's; and there are very few Sequoia's being built.

Essentially Toyota is shrinking itself to match supply to demand and to focus on products built in NA where the effects of a weaker dollar aren't so great ( some improvement recently ).

The Prius situation will be interesting. How much pent updemand is there? Nobody knows for sure.

RE: the SUV market. It has already been announced that the midsized vehicles are all but dead across the board.
The Explorer when it returns will be a crossover
The Aspen and Durango are DEAD DEAD DEAD
The TrailBlazer/Envoy are probably going to be cut out in BK court
The Pathfinder is reported to be going to a crossover structure
The Wrangler if it survives will remain, it's even more iconic than the Prius.
The FJ is dead....
that leaves ..........the last one standing will be the 4Runner.

The Big SUVs are dinosaurs stuck in tar. Expedition, Suburban, Tahoe, Escalade, Yukon, Sequoia....pick two....for those that must have such vehicles. [ Suburban & Sequoia ]

 

A Prior said

Sorry, that is a marketing non-sequitor. Dealers don't ever *look* to decrease prices. It just happens when the market forces the dealer's hand. Shall we have a little lottery how long after widespread availability of the G3 Prius it will take for prices to become negotiable below msrp ?

I say a month. And yes, I am well aware that Toyota has set the msrp at a very reasonable price.

 

Market dictates price, not dealers. Of course I would love to sell every car at MSRP, but that is not going to happen in my lifetime

So, I guess we agree on something Sage!

 

Hey! Ease up on the mad pills, SageBrush. Not every dealer is out to get you or me.

I'm hardly a marketing expert, but I don't see the non sequitur in anything having to do with planning and pricing as associated with marketing, advertising or sales of anything, much less cars. I've heard of at least one dealer (in VA, I believe) who plans to offer the 2010 Prius for $500 below MSRP. That sounds sufficiently like planning to me, so I asked a couple of Chicago dealers if they were "looking" to do the same. I thought it was valuable enough to report in this thread.

Because the plan is to sell a very large number of Prius autos in the US this year, I think Toyota may be faced with price incentives later in the year. Until then, and unless they start delivering a large number of cars fairly quickly, I don't see any reason for the cars to sell below MSRP. One month to get below MSRP? The VA dealer: Yes. A couple of other dealers who see large numbers coming their way?: Maybe. Toyota price incentives?: No, not until after Labor Day -- and then only depending on gas prices.

(And I'm not much of a soothsayer, either; otherwise I'd have sold off all my stocks last August and waited until January to buy them back.)

 

OK, no more mad pills tonight.
It would be ... unusual ... for a dealer to admit to an up and coming price cut, since it is tantamount to saying that inventory is piling up, and supply is greater than demand.

Apologies for the caustic tone. As you realized, I respect the designers, inventors, and makers, but have little tolerance for middle-men.

 

True enough! In the case of the 2010, all we have is demand, though. There is no true way of knowing, in advance, how sales will go, but given the planned rate of delivery and the highly positive reviews for the new model, it is very difficult to see the reasons for dealers (much less Toyota) to suggest any reason for planning to sell below MSRP.

Hmm. It is pretty hard to find real examples of retail sales that do not involve a "middle man." Perhaps a farmer's market comes close, but my experience is that even such markets present valuable middle-men (the lessor of the market spaces, for instance).

Any way . . . thanks for the apology and the effort made to push posters to really think about their posts and responses.

 

What does "WFC" stand for? Searched around and cannot find it.

Thanks,

Rob