Insight off to a flying start

I did expect much more from Honda as there is little improvement over their previous model.

They both are dragging their feet on technology.

The prius is really making them look bad, however the prius has done little also compared to what I expected for the last 5 years of technology.

Although many things have been redone making it a new car inside and out for the 2010, we still only realize a 5mpg improvement... I was dissappointed big time!.... and still not even a plug-in or Lithium Ion.

When is some going to get serious about gas mileage?

What the car companies need to realize is if they will make a car thats cheaper to run, people can afford to spend more or even buy in the first place verses the lower priced competition.

But when it takes 8 years to regain the extra cost in gas savings, few people go for it as they won't even have the car that long, so they will opt to buy a non-hybrid instead.

 

It should be called a "Liebrid" not a hybrid. Its not a full hybrid like the Prius, thus it SHOULD be cheaper. The civic hybrid is just as good as this NEW Insight.

Again, I think its great we do have a cheaper hybrid but I was expecting so much more from Honda.

 

That's true, but at least we know where Honda is spending its research dollars, on the fuel cell Clarity. Which I believe is the first of its kind to be actually "sold" to the public.

 

I give the credit to Honda for making the most affordable hybrid today. However, the original Insight and Classic Prius were priced the same 9 to 10 years ago. So there is nothing special and do I take the credit away because it was done before?

The good thing is more people can experience ICE shutdown and regen braking. They can then learn the missing features available in Prius and eventually upgrade to a more refined full hybrid.

My tone is to urge people to skip the stepping stone (Insight) and invest extra $1-2 and get the Prius. Prius gives more bang for the buck.

 

yeah and yaris is cheaper than Corolla... so?

 

i give them credit to trying... more volume means more sales and that means lower production costs for everyone...

 

Honda never meant the new Insight to be as good as the Civic Hybrid.

In fact it is not better, whether in potential FE or technology.
What is does offer is a long term profit/production advantage for Honda and a packaging flexibility the second gen Civic Hybrid cannot yet aspire to achieve.

The "Liebrid" thing is pretty funny though.

One curious thing that fascinates me a bit, is the tendency for some of us to assume that the logical step up from a second gen Insight is ... the Prius.

That may be the case for some folks, obviously! But definitely not the majority. There are people who dead set on a particular brand in part because of the inherent attributes of its cars, and they will avoid crossing over to another brand even if it is technically superior in some areas.
Believe me, I see this level of brand zealotry on a regular basis as I dwell in both Honda and Toyota camps. I would say that the brand myopia can be almost blinding even for reasonably bright people on both sides.

No, unless we stubbornly ignore the reasons why people buy a Honda, the logical step up for a 2010 insight owner is the Civic Hybrid II and later, the HCH-III (2011). And to those who care to follow these things, Honda is hell bent on insuring that the transition path exists.

In any case, the Insight is here and has been found wanting compared to the Prius II and III in many areas (duh), proving once again that any attempts at comparing it to the Prius as futile and ill informed.
But if we want to truly focus on the next salvo from Honda, then look no further than 2011 and its HCH-III. That is where the true competition for the Prius is likely to come from.


Cheers;

MSantos

 

Exactly my point. Because there isn't a mini Prius that is cheaper, Honda is cashing on Prius success with a look-alike. They are betting that most buyers will not be able to tell the difference between assist and full hybrid but rely on their emotion to pull the trigger. Their salesmen are trained to compare a loaded Insight to a loaded Prius without disclosing the number of extra options that are available to choose in Prius. Making a small "econobrid" that looks like Prius and offer just the GPS to fully load it surely achieve their marketing point (most affordable).

I truly believe the success of Prius is based on the hybrid exclusive premium features, functionalities and benefits. Don't mind the media noise about the unique look, political statement, smug, tree hugger, etc... images. They are what "the others" perceive of us; the way they can explain because they don't and can not get it. Only the owners know "the way" to move forward since a shift in paradigm is necessary.

I am going to stop there because it is starting to sound like religion -- like explaining how to achieve enlightenment in Buddhism or to have faith in Christ.

Fortunately getting Prius is much easier. You just have to get in and drive one.

 

It is hard to imagine owners going from hatchback (Insight II) to sedan (HCH-III), unless HCH-III will be hatchback or at least fold down the rear seats.

What kind of new IMA packaging advancements where made in the Insight II? It has the same 1.3 liter gas engine, smaller HV battery (for smaller lighter car), weaker electric motor (smaller?), maybe smaller power control unit. A lot of those may be smaller because they were scaled down, not necessary more efficient way to package.

 

Funny.. when I read that, it was already banging around in my head.

Most religions get into the most error or deception because they only study their own viewpoints from theirs own teachers without regard to other revelation and viewpoints and so become cultish and narrow minded missing the whole point by straining at a knat and swallowing a camel.

Even so, we can get so locked in on a certain car that we miss some really good opportunities.

More and more competition is arising with more and more things to look at.

And theres more than one way to skin a cat.

If one way of building a car, hits a block to further improve gas mileage despite the selling price climbing higher and higher, maybe its time to consider another. Or at least keep an open mind.

I never knew prius was what it is, until I stumbled into it....

 

Agreed... even though I only truly appreciate the hatch on the Prius once or twice a year (max). Beyond that, the hatch is not an advantage for me as it may be for someone like you, for instance.

Of course, my humble case is just an example but unless you venture outside PC, you'll easily dismiss it as an isolated triviality as while good, the hatch is not an overriding quality for everyone. Once again, different folks, different strokes.

The HCH-III is expected to have folding seats and for many of us, the challenge is to achieve that without losing its independent double wishbone suspension. If Honda manages to at least retain that last significant attribute then I may consider unloading my HCH-II's as my current personal cars. Otherwise, I may have to retain these for a while longer.

Not really. The ICE volumetric capacity is the same between the two, but beyond that there are some very significant omissions on the Insight that prevent it from being as efficient as the HCH-II. especially in areas where the HCH-II remains untouchable.
Try as I may, I cannot take the 2010 Insight to the same levels of FE performance the HCH-II can achieve as I will demonstrate in my upcoming in-depth review, the differences can all be traced to what's missing on the Insight's ICE.

Also, the whole point of the 2010 Insight's current format is to realize packaging efficiencies that the HCH-II can not. Yes, its a hatch but it also got a much simpler rear suspension that allows the already small IPU to fit under the floor with ease. A more sophisticated suspension like than in the HCH-II would have interfered with that ability big time.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

For what its worth, I've always thought the hatchback combined with the very long front windshield and high roof together is what gives the pleasant surprise and feel of being "so big" on the inside, despite what you think its going to be like from the outside.

For the sake of sanity, I think its a wise use of space because you get to use it "all the time" even if you don't put anything back there because it becomes part of your living space while in the car!

I constantly get that reaction from everyone who has never been in a prius as they are shocked as to how much room is inside.

 

Never discount brand loyalty. We have been devout (yes, I purposely use the religious term) Honda drivers for 20 years. After all my research on the two cars, I went with the Gen II Prius over the 2010 Insight because I think Toyota's technology blows the Insight out of the water. The Insight will have an even harder time competing against the Gen III Prius, but there will be loyal Honda drivers who won't consider switching.
FWIW, I wouldn't even let my husband test drive the 2010 Insight, because the strong pull of Honda familiarity may have won him over.

 

I think Honda deserves credit due... to this day.. that the only engine I will buy in any of my yard equipment unless its just flat out not available... the engines are rock solid and dependable. I have a 150 VTach on my boat and 20 Hp on my lawn tractor... they run flawlessly. I used to have a friend that looked like a Honda car salesman as everyone in his family had one and he worked on them and swore by them.

Toyota likewise makes good stuff and leads the pack in sophisticated technologies that take risks to cut a trends for the future.
But Honda is no slouch and although may not be as cutting edge, has an awesome reputation for dependability.

 

That's what kept us coming back to Honda for 20 years! Just knowing that the car will start every time and get us from point A to point B reliably is the best peace of mind there is. We still own one (a 2002 CRV), and are about to give two away that are still going strong: a 2002 Civic to my daughter and a 1994 Accord to my niece. They're not complaining.

 

Until I ran across Toyota, I so far am very impressed likewise!.. especiallyl in light of the phenominal technology involved.

In one respect the technology affords more room for error, but the technology is so superior, it offsets error.... no belt, clutches , hydraulics etc

 

Absolutely true.

And what is more amazing is that Toyota managed to still make the Prius cabin silent enough to do away with the old claims that hatchback configurations are always noisier than their sedan counterparts.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

Without changing the thread topic, the 2010 prius is supposed to be even quieter!

I think noise from the rear wheels is always a challenge in suburbans, or any rig that has that area exposed barring a little sheet metal and foam in a thin space.

thats my main gripe about my 06 is the noise.

 

Compared to the Hondas I have been driving for 20 years, the Prius is extremely quiet.

 

"With only a few days remaining in its first month of sales, the Honda Insight is outselling its competitors in the hybrid market."


Hard to believe. In my 90 mile daily commute over hybrid infested LA freeways, I've yet to see one. I haven't seen a 2010 Prius on the road either, but I did see a couple of Insights sitting on a Honda dealer lot. They were not drawing a crowd, just sitting there. We see every kind of car known to man here in LA, where are the fast selling Insights?