Prius Premium

First, you need to compare apples to apples.
The Nissan you mention does not have:
ABS system
Automatic transmision
Heated side mirrors
Smart Key system (which is not available even as an option)
Power Windows
Cruise control
6 way adjustable driver's seat (it does have 4 way though)
6 speakers (4 is the only option)
Center armrest with storage.

All of the above are standard on the base prius and are either not available or optional as part of the Nissan.
The Prius also has much more leg, hip and shoulder room although the Versa has more head room.

Now, that being said, if you are looking for the most economical car, buy a 2-3 year old car.
If you want a car with everything the Prius offers, test out a Prius.
If you are concerned about how long it will 'pay you back' ask yourself how long it will take for a sunroof to pay you back. Or the JBL stereo sytem to pay you back. Or any of the other options you want

 

There is absolutely no comparison between a Versa and a Prius. Versa, Fit and Insight are all compact economy cars, while a Prius is a slightly upscale mid-size car. You need to choose other cars for your comparison, and you need to actually drive them to see the differences. Noone ever says a V6 or V8 has a premium. It's simply a different choice of engine platform, that has the power of those, with the best possible mileage, and the least possible pollution. People have lots of reasons for getting a Prius other than a pure cost benefit analysis of gas cost, e.g., higher end tech than is found on most cars in this price range, energy independence for the U.S., low smog, quietness, very versatile hatchback design, and other features that make it a great car in its own right, without regard to MPG and smog factors. Decide what you want in a car and then test drive. The Fit wins almost every small economy car comparison/review. If you want to stay small, and like the idea of a hybrid, try the Insight and Civic Hybrid. Obviously,you've come to a fanboy site, so most people are going to tell you to give Prius a try, especially if you can afford it, want more features, room and MPG, and want a hatchback.

 

Hi campoj,

The problem with simple comparisons are they do not take into account the devil in the details.

I am not super familar with the Insight II so wont comment.

The Versa you can get for $10K is not going to have an automatic transmission, aluminum alloy wheels and various other things. Are these things you want?

Yes, its best to have a paid-off car. So, do you really need a new car now? Or can your present car be fixed up and the subsequent payments put into a new-car account at the bank? If your ready to start making car payments again, then just make them to your account, until you can pay cash for the car you truely want.

Actually, back in the 70's and 80's many people bought Benz's because they would be cheaper in the long run. Cadilacs just did not last. Although, we do not see that today. Benz's biggest market was livery service in Europe then, and they built the cars to last.

Here are some things to consider to redo the comparison spread sheet. First off compare apples to apples, even if you buy an orange. You have not provided any info about your self, so this may get long winded. Transmission - do you really need an automatic, or not? If your out in a more rural area, say like Champaign Urbana in Illinois, and commute from just outside of town into town on a 50 mph secondary roads, maybe a manual is alright. If your driving around Chicagoland, well, a manual is a real drag in a traffic jam, and the clutch operators and throw-out bearing are going to go allot quicker.

The Prius transmission is very multi-functional. It provides the starter and alternator functions for the car. So, those never have to be repaired.

If your in a metropolitan area, traditional brakes are a big repetive expense. The Prius slows by electric braking down to 7 mph, and the friction brakes last about 120K miles around here. On my Saturn SL2, the brakes needed service at 40K miles. It was $500. I sold the car before it needed that work at 80 K miles. That would have been more than $500 (replace rotors this time). At 120K miles, the Prius needs its pads replaced, and the rotors cut - $500. But the Saturn SL2 would need a $1000 dollar brake service (fronts and rears). So, at 120K miles the Saturn cost $2100 in brake maintenance, and the Prius $500.

The Prius transmission is very mechanically simple. It has about 1/3 the parts of a standard automatic transmission, and about 1/2 the parts of a manual transmission. This makes it very durable. With proper fluid service, it should go 150K to 250K miles. There are many stories of taxi cab Prius going 250K miles plus.

You may be saying to yourself, "I only own cars for 5 years, and so I wont pay for that stuff". Well, like it or not you always are. This is why trade-in and resale value on cars is so poor. Its the uncertainty of, and cost of upkeep of a used car. The Prius has high resale, because if its sold at 60 K miles from anywhere that does not have mountains, the buyer gets 60 K miles in brake service, still. Rather than 20K to the next maintenance cost. And so it goes for alternators and starters.

I did a spread sheet to see how many years it would be to break-even. I costed differential maintenance items between the Prius, and another car that cost $17K (smaller car than a Prius at the time). Because I did not need a car the size of the Prius. If I needed a car the size of the Prius, then your probably talking about costing against something like a Pontiac G6, or the midsize Hyundai. The G6 , at least, is more than a 17 K with an automatic transmission and aluminum wheels, ABS, Traction Control and side air bags. I bought my SL2 with Traction Control and ABS, as these are great on the roads around here. Those are must-haves for me. The Prius I bought with side air bags. With so many texting 20 somethings and cell phone involved driver contractor large vehicles around here, its a good idea to have side air bags.

So, what you do is you compare the purchase cost, tax and licensing of the cars in two columns. Next you then figure the cost per thousand miles of each maintenance item. For example those brakes. The Prius has a $500/120 , or $4.17 per 1000 mile brake cost. The Saturn has a $2200/120 , or $18.33 per 1000 mile brake cost. The Saturn needs a standard battery every 5 years (3 years in Phoenix, 4 years in Minneapolis), for about $80, and I drive 12000 miles a year, so that is $1.33 per thousand miles. The Prius has two batteries, One is $2400 and needs replacement in 150K miles, or $16 / 1K miles. The other battery cost about $200 and needs replacement about every 48000 miles for me, or about $4.17 per 1 K miles. The Prius transmission needs no repair over the life the vehicle, but its best to include one rebuild into the cost of a standard automatic transmission (or clutch job for manual tranny car). That is about $2500 per 100K miles, or $25 per 1K miles. A starter and alternator are good for about 60 K miles, and together cost about $500 to have replaced, or $8.33 per 1K miles.

Put it altogether with the mileage savings. I figured $3 per gallon back in 2006 would be the average over the life of the car. It turns out its been more like $3.50 , as we were up to over $4 several times since then here in Chicagoland. Your gas prices may be less.

I also figured and got the $3150 Katrina tax credit from Uncle Sam. And the spread sheet also had the cost of money (lost interest). At the time banks were giving 5% interest, now its more like 2.5 %. This interest thing is significant. The bank interest plumeted a yer after I bought the car. Along with the more expensive gas, I am probably pretty close to break even, 3 1/4 years down the road.

And in January 2006 the spread sheet said about 5 years for break-even. Not spectacular, but the result is even if I sold the car after 5 years, I would be ahead because it would be worth more because it would be less worn out. If I kept the Prius for 10 years, I would be about as much ahead as the purchase price difference at the start, or $6K. So, I knew even though I wanted a Hybrid Car since 1979, that my passion for it was not overiding economic common sense. The Prius would not be a bad money decision.

Back in January 2008 I revisited that spread sheet when gas was $4+ per gallon and compared to a the 4 cyl. G6. The break even at that time was about 2 1/2 years. SO, a person owning the Prius for 5 years at that $4 / gallon gas price would save a bunch over buying a G6. And this is why the Prius sold very well in 2008.

 

In case you don't accept Donee's math, last year in its annual auto issue Consumer Reports evaluated cars' total cost of ownership. It considered purchase price with sales tax, loan interest, depreciation, fuel, insurance, maintenance and repair. The Prius was judged least expensive among all family cars at $27,500 for five years, well ahead of the Camry at $30,250. That was based on fuel at $3.00 a gallon and driving 12,000 miles a year.

Using CR's testing, the Prius got 44 MPG and the Camry 24 MPG. Assuming those figures (hang around here and we'll show you how to improve that Prius number substantially ) at 12K miles a year, the Prius' fuel cost would be $4000 over five years while the Camry's would be $7500, or a difference of $3500. At $2.20 (the going rate in my area at the moment), the difference would be $2567. So the five-year differential in fuel savings decreases by $933 with current gas prices. That still leaves the Prius $1817 ahead of the Camry in five-year TCO. (BTW, I too agree that gas prices will continue to rise.)

More difficult to predict or measure is how trade-in/resale value fluctuates with gas prices. Certainly an argument can be made that deprecation is greater now than when gas prices were at $3. But I doubt the $.80 drop will erase the $1817 difference.

Now if your goal is strictly lowest TCO, then a Yaris, Aveo, or Fit is a better purchase, according to the report. But like others have said, that's apples to oranges. So is Insight vs. Prius.

 

Hi Jimbo,

In my original spread sheet I used 45 mpg for the Prius, and 28 mpg for the SL2. The 45 mpg was a guess based on most cars doing worse than the old EPA numbers. My experience is that 55 mpg would be better for the 2 nd Gen Prius in the driving enviorment around here. Of course we both can do well better than that. But its a good working number. The SL2 number was based on actual experience in summer driving.

The G6 spread sheet used the 55 mpg fuel economy for the Prius.

The last refill here was $2.70 early last week. So $3 / gallon is just around the corner here in Chicagoland - and contrary to the NBC national economy commentator we have 3 refineries within 50 miles of downtown Chicago - Citgo in Lemont, BP in Hammond, IN and Mobil in Joliet.

 

There are differences performance, safety and hybrid exclusive premium features other than the price. Prius is a class larger than the Insight. Even if you want to compare, a comparably equipped Insight EX costs ($22,165) just $500 less than the Prius II ($22,670). See the link for more details. 2010 Prius vs. Insight

BTW, ask him to calculate Insight Vs. Civic Hybrid too.

If he wants to use a similarly-sized car to compare with Prius, he should have picked the Maxima. Both Prius and Maxima are mid-size cars. In fact, Prius has more interior room than the Maxima.

2010 Prius: 115.3 cubic feet
2010 Maxima: 110.4 cubic feet

BTW, ask him to calculate when the Maxima will make up the difference between it and the Versa. You get the point!

 

You left out:

- Alloy Wheels
- Touch Tracer
- Push Start button
- 7 airbags including knee airbag
- Vehicle Stability Control
- AT-PZEV or SULEV (instead of ULEV) emission

 

To all those saying the Versa is a compact car, I suggest you check the actual numbers. The Versa is Nissan's economy car but it is not a small car.

--------------- Prius ---------- Versa Sedan ----- Versa Hatch
Passenger ---- 96 ----------------- 94 ---------------- 95
Cargo --------- 16 ----------------- 14 ---------------- 18
Total --------- 112 ---------------- 108 --------------- 113
Note: EPA volume in Cubic Feet

Campoj, There is absolutely no reason for you to compare vehicles based on what people here think. Decide what YOU want in a vehicle and then make a decision on what best fits YOUR needs. If you don't need or want a large car, automatic transmission, ABS, etc then there is not reason to credit the Prius for having these features.

As someone else said, you came to a Prius site. Here you will find people that tell you to buy a Prius and will come up with some way to justify why the Prius will be the best car for you. However, only you can make that decision.

 

You should probably use this clever friend for other costly items, like clothes. You could easily save $100 or more on one simple outfit. Instead of buying a shirt and pants for example, you could buy a shower curtain for $10 - $15. Then use a piece of rope (maybe $1 at the hardware store) and wrap the shower curtain around you, secured with the rope tied around your waste. Think of the money you would save over a year.

And instead of eating expensive food from the cafeteria or McDonalds and the like, you could eat a bunch of bananas for the day. Better yet, hang out by the restaurants' or super markets' back door and pick through some of the stuff they toss out. It can't be all bad. Only style conscious people worry about strutting around with good clothes and eating good food.

I have more ideas, but I think I'll have to start charging for them so I can buy my next car.
:welcome:

 

JSH, not really. Actually, no one yet has told him he should buy a Prius.
And you point about choosing a car based on what he wants in a car is spot on.
What people have said, is if he is comparing similar cars other than the hybrid motor, he should actually compare cars that have the same or at least similar specs and options.
And to the OP, please ask your friend how long he expects his sunroof (or what ever neat option he likes in his car, to pay for itself

 

When comparing hatchback to hatchback, be certain to account for the same cargo space. The 2010 Prius cargo space is listed as 21.6 cubic feet, while the 2009 Versa Hatchback shows 17.8.

Also, passenger volume is not all equal. The Versa is a much higher car, so if headroom is most critical, you'll find nearly endless amounts in the Nissan car. You'd better be a bit skinnier, however, as the Versa has 4" less hip room, front and back, and 2.5" less shoulder room, front and back, than the 2010 Prius. In terms of legroom, the 2010 Prius has an inch more up front and two inches less in the back.

So, if you are 6'6 and under 200 lbs, the Versa may be just right, but most people will find the car to be a bit "tight" feeling. Many people will find that the tightness isn't so bad once they see the price difference, however. It isn't hard to find a nicely-equipped Versa Hatch for as much as $3,000 less than the 2010 Prius II. In three or four years, however, I would fully expect the 2010 Prius will have significantly and substanitally higher resale value.

 

I compared 2009 to 2009 because numbers for the 2010 Versa are not available yet. The interior volume may change.

My point remains. The Nissan Versa is not a compact car. If you go to Fuel Economy and search by EPA Class you will find the the Versa 1.8L CVT is the 4th most efficient mid-size car and the most efficient non-hybrid.

Passenger volume is never equal. Again it depends on what is important to the OP. For example, the generous rear legroom in the Prius is just about useless for my wife and I since 99% of our vehicle miles involve 1-2 people in the car.

The OP also noted that he likes the idea of purchasing a car outright instead of getting a loan. I am very supportive of this idea because my general philosophy is that if you can't pay cash for something you can't afford it. (The exception being a house.)

My last bit of advise for the OP is that if you are looking for a nice car with the lowest lifetime cost you need to disregard new cars completely. You will do much better buying a 2-3 year car that has depreciated 20-40% but still has 200K or more miles of useful life remaining.

 

My bottom line has always been reliability. I absolutely love all the fun and luxury features you get with the Prius, but I also love the fact that its reliability can't be beat. You may not find that to be so with a Nissan. Honda, yes. If you must economize on the initial layout of cash, go Honda or used Prius.

 

I stand corrected on the Versa, although seeing it at auto shows I still think there's no comparison. Everyone made good points about the safety and reliability features. The bottom line is that the hybrid premium (at least on Toyotas) seems to me to be a myth when you take into account the greater power, fewer mechanical parts, less wear on brakes and transmission, and high reliability. OP's friend (like many others before) made simplistic assumptions that need correction by doing some research and comparing actual car features. OP really needs to think through what OP can afford and what is important to OP in a car, and consider a few things other than MPG and gas savings.

 

If the bigger car gets more MPG, why not? You get the cake and eat it too. Prius is larger than those being compared with but also gets 10-20 more MPG!

He was looking into the Prius first until his co-worker did the calculation with a smaller stripped down hybrid and non-hybrid cars.

Going by your logic, he shouldn't credit the Insight or Versa for the lower price.

 

Bigger is not always better.

That depends on whether the OP values price or MPG more.

 

Higher MPG is better and bigger is just the extra -- icing on the cake. Name a bigger car that gets more MPG (other than the Prius). This is one of the Prius exclusive premium feature so appealing, in my opinion.

I think a better way to look at is short-term vs. long-term since MPG translate to cost in long-term. Initial car price or the total cost of ownership. Most importantly, the equipments/features/options of the car that you can live/drive with for the next 5-10 years.

 

I agree with JSH that if you don't desire more room, more standard option and more possibilities of cool options, and higher mpg then you shouldn't pay for them.
However, when comparing the price of two cars, you must take ALL the additional features you are getting. Attributing all of the price difference to one aspect of the car is just silly.

 

I too agree with JSH on that point but it is irrevelant in the case of the OP. OP was suggested to downsize and compromised on features, safety, performance and emission for the sake of initial purchasing price difference.