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is the prius "dumb" ?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by paxbritannica1805, May 25, 2009.

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  1. paxbritannica1805

    paxbritannica1805 New Member

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    Hello all,
    I havent read all that I should have on the prius' "learning machine", but mine appears somewhat stupid.

    Does it have have accelerometers, or maybe 'see' what the steering is doing? I always execute the same series of turns and acceleration patterns during the last two miles homeward bound, but if I don't block the hell out of the grills, the ICE will be ideling just to stay warm (no low batt and no accel needed), when it should realize that it's about to be put to bed.
     
    #1 paxbritannica1805, May 25, 2009
  2. Rokeby

    Rokeby Member

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    #2 Rokeby, May 25, 2009
  3. SW03ES

    SW03ES Senior Member

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    Are you serious?!? Its a car...not a robot. It has no idea its about to be put to bed.

    Crazy...
     
    #3 SW03ES, May 25, 2009
  4. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    It is just playing dumb and is actually plotting its escape. :madgrin:
     
    #4 dogfriend, May 25, 2009
  5. SW03ES

    SW03ES Senior Member

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    Maybe!

    I'm still dumbfounded by the OP's post LOL, how would the car be able top recognize when it is approaching its home? Absurd.
     
    #5 SW03ES, May 25, 2009
  6. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    The navigation unit obviously has the GPS satellite data, and it also has speed, steering angle, and a gyroscope just in case the GPS signal is blocked. A proximity waypoint (Memory Point with a sound icon) could announce your arrival at home. The GPS unit knows how far it is to a destination, and a map of the roads along the way.

    So why would it be so amazing that the car could adapt its engine management to a known route? It doesn't, but a lot of the parts are already in place for a future that does all that and more.
     
    #6 RobH, May 25, 2009
  7. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

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    It wouldn't amaze me if a car could adapt to a known route... the big question is what happens when it does all this adapting, and then you - like the crazy guy you know you are - drive right by your house one day, and continue to some *other* distination instead. Fact of the matter is, the car will never know what we're thinking. The answer is that the user should have control over the systems. But car makers simply won't allow that. We're not worthy. And in general, we really are too stupid. After all, we need a law to tell us to wear seat belts in cars, and helmets on motorcycles. Sigh.
     
    #7 darelldd, May 25, 2009
  8. paxbritannica1805

    paxbritannica1805 New Member

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    I dont think it's that absurd. I think most people drive one of a few routes 90% of the time, sure you might go alot of places, but the only intrest is the last few miles of wherever the car is powered down for long periods.


    If it just has a lowly accelerometer, it should be able to realize that its on an exit ramp. and then check for other conditions after that, and if it has a $50 GPS receiver could only check for the following conditions within a certian radius of usual destinations.

    The below sudo code is for my route, the numbers are completly made up

    If (experaince an average of 0.02-0.05 left g forces for 395-405 meters){

    If (followed by almost no side-to-side acceleration for 1580-1620 meters){

    If(a roughly 90 degree turn is made){

    If(followed by almost no side-to-side acceleration for 450-510 meters){

    If(a roughly 90 degree turn is made){ <--the stop sign in my pic

    While((the battery is not too low)AND(no rapid acceleration is needed)){

    dont run the engine unless it gets very cold

    }}}}}}

    Thanks for the link Rokeby

    }


    In my case, I have a unique homeward route. Apolizies for my messy writing.



    [​IMG]
     
    #8 paxbritannica1805, May 25, 2009
  9. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    I'd love a car my non-driving daughter could get in to and say "Take me to dance class please" without needing me to drive her. Or I could tell it to fetch the other daughter from wherever she happens to be in the middle of the night. Or I could just crawl into the back seat and say "Home, James."

    A little futuristic maybe, but not such a bad idea at all. :)
     
    #9 hyo silver, May 25, 2009
  10. SW03ES

    SW03ES Senior Member

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    Not all vehicles have the GPS equipment...

    To the OP's post....with map and analysis of the engine cutting in and off. I don't know what to say LOL. I guess some have more free time than others.

    Its a car, its got an advanced drivetrain but actually as far as telematics systems go the Prius is nothing groundbreaking or even as sophisticated as more expensive vehicles. The ECU will "adapt" to some of your driving style but that adaptation is extremely limited to almost nonexistant, as it is on all other cars. Really and truly its more limited in the Prius because the CVT has no gears and shift points for the ECU to modify based on the driver's demands.

    Your Prius isn't "dumb", its just a car and what you are proposing is not something that is available on cars on the road today.

    If your response is "Why not" or "It could be", then I suggest you get into the vehicle design industry and make it happen. For the purpose of your question, your Prius is operating as designed.
     
    #10 SW03ES, May 25, 2009
  11. essaunders

    essaunders Member

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    you don't show elevation on your map, but if that last bit after the stop sign is level to down hill, you might get an EV switch. Your predicitive abilities could used!
    Now, any power you use on the way home will be burnt in gas in the morning, but under (exactly) the right situation, it might help you.
    Or, you could do the math on the "extra" gas being burnt and compare to the cost of "extra" usage of the hybrid battery.

    My trip home has a similar situation: I turn off a feeder road a half mile from my house. If I'm in stage 4, I'll accelerate to ~25 mph and then coast to the next stop sign. at that sign, (after the stop) I'll pull forward on electric only to crest a very small rise, then coast down to my house ~.3mile where I electric-power up my driveway and back into the garage. if done right, the ICE doesn't come on in the last 0.4mile- but that's the best I can do...
     
    #11 essaunders, May 25, 2009
  12. paxbritannica1805

    paxbritannica1805 New Member

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    I plan on getting an EV switch and a Scanguage, but need to look into warranty implications about the EV switch.

    Yea, I forgot about elevation. I live in coastal GA, and the overpasses are about the only "hills" to speak of.

    Usually by the time I get off of that exit ramp, my SOC is 5-6 bars, then I use the ICE to accel up to traffic speed, and if the lane is clear behind me, coast with a little warp stealth at first all the way to the turn, which I try to take with no more than the regen coast braking for a few seconds. Then I accel a little with the EM and coast to the stop sign, which I usually roll through around 8mph (there's good visiblity around it), then accel with the EM up to the low-mid 20's and take the last 3 curves without braking. (sometimes I've had a 7 bar SOC and the ICE cuts on here). During this last 1.5 miles, I hardly ever lose more than 2 bars.

    I realize the inefficiency of the energy conversion, and usually use the ICE accel, and the EM to provide a mildly powered coast after that.
     
    #12 paxbritannica1805, May 25, 2009
  13. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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    I'm still waiting for my flying car!
     
    #13 Stev0, May 25, 2009
  14. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Shouldn't it be able to smell the barn?

    Tom
     
    #14 qbee42, May 25, 2009
  15. SW03ES

    SW03ES Senior Member

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    You'd think! What a crappy car that can't figure that out...
     
    #15 SW03ES, May 26, 2009
  16. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    ummm well, i cant say that my car knows when its about to be put to bed, but it does keep track of where its been. now i never had Nav on my 2 previous Pris, but my 2010 put little dots on the map showing where i have driven previously and red lines for places i have driven that day... weird.
     
    #16 DaveinOlyWA, May 26, 2009
  17. paxbritannica1805

    paxbritannica1805 New Member

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    Maybe I should have rephrased my original post. It was not my intention to attract (mostly) a storm of criticism. After reading a few threads, it is evident that the prius does not "learn" hardly anything beyond appropiate fuel/air mixtures, etc. However, I am suprised that Toyo did not try to do this.

    The reason that route recognition is not paramount to car manufacturers is because no car other than the Prius could make much use of it, but Im sure the idea is feasable, at the cost of a couple hundred dollars worth of instruments and maybe a more powerful ECU.

    Last semester for school I wrote a program that would compare alot of images and then group them according to similarity, which is ALOT harder than one might think. No students got it right, because it IS impossible, but comparing discrete values to discrete values that have come before is rather doable.

    I think that if Toyo pursued this route, it would be a far better investment than say.. a more powerful inverter, EM, or battery.
     
    #17 paxbritannica1805, May 26, 2009
  18. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    There are some patents out on 3D route prediction based on GPS, so others have the same idea.

    Tom
     
    #18 qbee42, May 26, 2009
  19. FreddieVee

    FreddieVee Junior Member

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    As an Avionics Technician (aviation electronics), I worked on commercial aircraft that could land themselves. I worked on aircraft that could land themselves and then bring themselves to the gate (the pilot had to apply the brakes).

    All of these features required two things the Prius does not have.

    #1. Multiple redundant computers that each cost about 10 times what a well equipped Prius cost. The cost of the total landing package was usually over $1,000,000 per plane depending on the sophistication of each type of plane.

    #2. Airports that had systems to guide the plane in.

    A "Category 3" plane could not make a "Category 3" landing at a "Category 2" (or lower) airport. The higher the "Category" the more a plane could do. When I retired, "Category 3B" was the highest in this country although the UK had some "Category 3C" I believe.

    Until we equip our homes with electronic beacons, and until the price of computing power drops about 90%, we will not have a really smart Prius or any other car.

    FreddieVee
     
    #19 FreddieVee, May 26, 2009
  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Well let's see, if we are going to propose changing business models:

    • Garmin should make more powerful inverters
    • Magellan should make a more powerful battery
    • Koolaid should make a pinot noir
    • GM should make a fuel efficient car
    • Fox should broadcast news
    A Garmin nuvi costs less than $200 and has all of the tracking functions you want. You can buy an NHW11 and maintenance manuals for less than $10,000 and modify it to your heart's content to achieve your requirements. Instead of 'cursing the darknet, light a candle.'

    Seriously, every part you need is available and affordable. Go get one and spend your time and energy making it happen. Don't have a clue? Change majors and study mechanical engineering.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #20 bwilson4web, May 26, 2009
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