Car Talk Hybrid Zone goes live

Hi Zen...,

I would love to post on some of these Car-Talk forums, but their site just does not like my browser, or whatever. Have never been able to get any post on there to register or even their registration process to work here.....

 

Click and Clack on Hybrids

Car Talk | Hybrid Zone

 

Re: Click and Clack on Hybrids

Nice find!!

 

Thanks!

They had some more of this "Bell the Hybrid" nonsense and I left my note.

Bob Wilson

 

I could really do without their continual glamorization of
stupidity and denigrating rational thought. The frequent cuts
on the "birkenstocks" and "pocket protector crowd" gets old
really fast. Who do they think *designed* the hybrids in the
first place?? Not the knuckle-draggers, safe to say.
.
But at least they've got a lot more correct info about them than
they did a couple of years ago.
.
_H*

 

Re: Click and Clack on Hybrids

Well . . . Nice, excepting the "hybrid premium" thing all over again. Even though they mention Civic v. Civic Hybrid and the specific price difference, they still repeat that the hybrid premium, generally, is about $3,000 to $4,000 (". . . a hybrid may have a total cost that's $3,000 to $4,000 higher than its conventional version." FAQ).

And, Yes, they do actually use the term "hybrid premium" in the FAQ section.

 

Re: Click and Clack on Hybrids

Lol I love the cartoon.

 

Re: Click and Clack on Hybrids

I wish they also point out that Toyota's system get better highway mileage than Honda's system.

 

Re: Click and Clack on Hybrids

Two primary sources of MPG robbers: Brakes and Air Resistance.

City driving involves more brakes while highway driving involves more air resistance.

You can recharge the battery with regen brakes but there is no way to recovery the lost energy pushing through the air.

Prius gets better mileage in the city because it can recovery energy from the brakes where on the highway, the energy is lost through the air.

 

Re: Click and Clack on Hybrids

GS450h and RX400h are full hybrids. They messed up there.

I wish they mention lower emission as well. They only point out power and MPG.

 

Re: Click and Clack on Hybrids

They messed up in several places.

I haven't had a chance to dig for reasons why. But the first impression was that they (actually, whomever they got to write it) assumed FULL hybrid meant that it was a hybrid without a traditional counterpart. You know, built from the ground up intended to be only a hybrid.

That's a pretty bad error. Not being aware of the fundamental differences between FULL and ASSIST hybrids is a source of concern.
.

 

Re: Click and Clack on Hybrids

Nice, but if you want to win over us red state voters, the argument needs to be about getting more for the money (gas) and the technical benefits.

Leave the 'carbon footprint' stuff out of it, and more of us will listen.

 

Re: Click and Clack on Hybrids

^^Well said. Talk about power, fuel economy, reducing dependence on foreign oil, being far less vulnerable to high gas prices, quieter rides (works with some red staters, others just want noise) talk about powering accessories while not running down the battery to death.

 

Re: Click and Clack on Hybrids

I'm hardly an expert, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong,but wouldn't it take significant changes to a standard ICE automobile to be able to auto shut off at idle? I question Click and Clacks contention that soon all Auto's will employ auto shut off at idle. While that would be nice, as slow as much of the auto industry is to react to change, coupled with the "American Graffiti" history of reving engines at stop lights, which means I don't think it would be a selling point yet to most Americans, makes me think we are probably still a long way from all auto's employing an auto shut off at idle feature.

Plus this is where I could really be wrong, but my understanding is the auto off at idle works with Hybrids because they use the electric motor on start. So momentum is created using the torque and "instant" power of an electric motor and battery. Honda's IMA even keeps the engine turning if not firing at engine stop. So wouldn't it take significant changes to a standard ICE only automobile to use a auto off at idle feature? In other words, if you contend that someday ALL auto's will have auto shut off at idle, then don't you have to say, someday all auto's will use at least partial hybrid technology and a battery electrict assist? I'm afraid I'm not as optimistic as Click and Clack. I think Hybrids, plug in's will advance and are here for now and for the future, but we are also stuck with ICE's for the foreseeable future as well, and my observation is that the auto industry as a whole doesn't make changes unless there is potential profit. An ICE auto, that does nothing more than shut off at idle, isn't something I see appealing to most of the buying public. For now I see two camps. Standard ICE and Hybrid/Electric.

 

Re: Click and Clack on Hybrids

It's not really that big of a change. Conventional ICEs already have two electric motors, the starter and alternator, and a battery. Combine the two motors, beef up the battery a bit, and you've got a mild hybrid. You don't need any electric motor input to the drivetrain.

The "buying public" probably won't have a choice. The automakers will have to meet the new standards regardless of how much engine-revving the "public" wants to do.

 

Re: Click and Clack on Hybrids

That's kind of my point though, Combine the two motors, beef up the battery...you've got a mild hybrid. So what Click and Clack are contending with that statement is that eventually all cars will at least be "mild hybrids"...well maybe but I'm not that optimistic. Plus I thought you did need electric motor input to the drivetrain, or at least to get a quiet, seemless start and restart of the ICE. Unless all engines became more like Honda's IMA, where they were kept turning but not burning. Thanks for the response, I realize I could be wrong.

 

Re: Click and Clack on Hybrids

Says Who?

Not fueleconomy.gov, which gives the 2009 models identical highway ratings.

Not the serious hypermilers at cleanmpg.com, who have figured out how to push the Civic farther than the Prius on the highway (but not the city).

The 2010 Prius does have a better EPA highway number than 2009, buy I don't expect Click & Clack to have updated their site yet. And the hardcore hypermilers haven't had their hands on the new model long enough to see if they can get it to match the Civic, or even the older Prius.

 

Re: Click and Clack on Hybrids

Why not?

It's been promoted as a new website feature and it does have info about the 2010 Fusion hybrid. Sighting old info about Prius even though new ratings & specs have been available for awhile is quite misleading.
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