1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Prius fatal accidents

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by bwilson4web, May 26, 2009.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,397
    15,518
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus


    This weekend, I went through the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) Fatal Accident Reporting System (FARS) data to count every fatal accident that involved a Prius and every single vehicle Prius and Pedestrian accident:
    [​IMG]

    I did not count bodies, just the accidents. Accidents that had more than one vehicle and a pedestrian were treated as just a vehicle accident. Only single vehicle, Prius accidents with a pedestrian were counted as pedestrian accidents. What is interesting is the 10% ratio of all accidents to single car, pedestrian accidents matches the 11% of all fatalities are pedestrians reported by the NHTSA. Please don't read anything into this relative ratios, just sometimes numbers seem to align.

    The next step is to take the annual Prius sales, a "fleet loss rate," and the 15,000 miles per year per vehicle to calculate the fatality rate per 100 million miles. By summing all years of Prius activity, we'll have a large enough sample set, already evident by the total number of fatal accidents, to meet even the most skeptical statistical requirement.

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    13,439
    640
    0
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Bob

    There you go again, bringing up hard facts. You will be facing the wrath of a certain drug addict, boner pill, sex pervert, grossly obese radio talk show host who does not deserve to even be named

    Seriously, good work
     
  3. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    2,997
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    So we don't need artificial engine sound generator in EV mode right?
     
  4. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,874
    8,173
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    Is it still considered sex, if the victim is under 18? And if the obese talk show host is high on oxycodone, can they really form the intent necessary to commit that crime?
     
  5. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    13,439
    640
    0
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Nope, then its rape/sodomy of a minor. Too bad the punishment isn't chopping off Captain Winky with a dull, rusty knife

    Sure they can, especially if they appear to be hard wired for that pervert behavior
     
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,397
    15,518
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    He'll only be pissed that his broadcasts weren't required to be the noise ... Hummmm, perhaps we should do some 'noise detection' tests:

    • Prius in EV mode
    • engine noise
    • Rush noise
    Bob Wilson
     
  7. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,059
    3,529
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Bob, I have long wondered about the loss rate of Prius from the operating fleet. Your concern is for the 'meat' onstead, showing a more compassionate soul. Keep the numbers flowing.

    As for the rest of the thread, guys, relax. I sense a definite need for more lithium ions in your drinking water. Calm down.
     
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,397
    15,518
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus


    The NHTSA told us in 2008 that they did not have 'enough hybrid data' to analyze the relative, hybrid electric risk. But now we have the 2007 FARS accident data and annual Prius sales and by accumulating the number of Prius and fleet mileage, we have a statistically valid sample set of Prius miles:
    [​IMG]

    I'm attaching the excel spreadsheet for critical review but the approach I used:
    • 5% fleet loss per year - 'pulled out of thin air,' this means one of every 20 Prius go to the salvage yard each year, 10% every two years. I suspect the actual rate is lower but I've yet to find a credible, fleet loss rate.
    • one half of current year vehicles plus all existing vehicles - we assume that at the end of the year, one half of the vehicles sold in that year would have been in full use plus all of the previously sold Prius minus the fleet loss. This is the active fleet used to calculate the mileage.
    • 15,000 miles/vehicle/year - using the EPA estimated miles per year
    • 2000 Prius miles were ignored - a partial year, the mileage contribution is insignificant. I stopped looking with 2001 FARS data because the format seemed to change from 2000. I believe the 2001-2007 data is sufficient for a statistical analysis.
    The NHTSA publishes a fatality rate of "deaths per 100 million miles." By my conservative (aka., under reporting fleet miles,) we are looking at 40 times the 100 million miles. This meets anyone's definition of a minimum sample set with better than a 90% confidence level.

    One caution, we can't used the fatal accident rate for the fatalities nor can we ignore the multi-vehicle, fatal pedestrian accidents. There is also a question of who gets tagged with a fatality if one car strikes the pedestrian and a second car hits the pedestrian.

    I'm looking for a car with similar characteristics, say a Scion or Echo/Yaris, to do a differential analysis. This would give us a way to compare similar engine and hybrid vehicles to see if there is any, statistically different fatal accident rate.

    Bob Wilson
     

    Attached Files:

    1 person likes this.
  9. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    13,439
    640
    0
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    I love it when you talk dirty

    Seriously, keep up the good work
     
  10. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    7,663
    1,038
    0
    Location:
    United States
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I don't understand the first chart: if each diamond is one "single pedestrian" incident, how does the line remain flat across multiple incidents?
     
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,397
    15,518
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    It is my habit in excel to count by starting with "0" or "1" in the top row of a column and then in the subsequent rows either increment or pass on the value. This causes the 'flat part.' In reality, the non-incrementing values could be set to a blank value but then plotting the line would have a lot of 'data gaps.'

    Bob Wilson
     
  12. CharlesJ

    CharlesJ Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    467
    29
    38
    Location:
    Monterey
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius

    Thanks for asking. I was wondering as well.
     
  13. CharlesJ

    CharlesJ Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    467
    29
    38
    Location:
    Monterey
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    So, if I understand it correctly, about 1/102 there was 1 such pedestrian death and at the end of 03 another one or 2 at year end and 1/1/05 there is another one or 3 for the year.
     
  14. DocX

    DocX New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    8
    0
    0
    Location:
    Portland Ore
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    So many times I am scared by bicyclists when driving and walking who shoot out of nowhere and are gone before I peel my eyelids. Should we require them to have some noise makers with Harley Davidson signatures?
     
  15. carz89

    carz89 I study nuclear science...

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2008
    444
    47
    0
    Location:
    San Diego
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Bob - for the Prius' pedestrian accidents -- were they pedestrian deaths? If not, do you have that data?
     
  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,397
    15,518
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Yes but first I have to handle the accidents. There are fields in the accident data that let me count the fatalities just as there are fields that let me count and then identify which vehicles were involved in the accident.

    Now many fatal pedestrian accidents involve more than one car. The first impact can throw the pedestrian into the path of another car and either impact can kill the pedestrian. But understand I can't go after 'blame'. I'm only interested in:

    • all fatalities per 100 million miles traveled
    • pedestrian fatalities per 100 million miles traveled
    The reason is the NHTSA publishes a lot of safety analysis:

    • "In 2007, the fatality rate per 100 million vehicle miles of travel (VMT) fell to a historic low of 1.37." - Traffic Safety Facts 2007 Data, DOT HS 810 993.
    • "Vehicle occupants accounted for 74 percent and motorcycle riders accounted for 13 percent of traffic fatalities in 2007. The remaining 13 percent were pedestrians, pedalcyclists, and other nonoccupants." - Ibid.
    • "In 2007, 70,000 pedestrians were injured and 4,654 were killed in traffic crashes in the United States, representing 3 percent of all the people injured in traffic crashes and 11 percent of all traffic fatalities." - Ibid.
    So I've been trying to figure out how to 'divide up the dead.' Let us say three vehicles are involved in an accident with one fatality. I can't assign that one death to all three vehicles as this would multiply the fatality rate per mile traveled. But what I can do is divide the fatality by the number of vehicles involved and assign to each vehicle that 'fraction of a death.'

    Using this approach and the total number of Prius miles, I can come up with a credible:

    • deaths per 100 million Prius miles
    • pedestrian deaths per 100 million Prius miles
    Now if I can find similar 1.6 L, vehicles whose sales records start about the time the Prius began and parallel the number of sales, I can do a differential analysis. I can calculate the numbers for both vehicles to test these questions:

    • How does the Prius fatality rate compare to similar engine sized vehicles from 2000-2007?
    • How does the Prius pedestrian fatality rate compare?
    Bob Wilson
     
  17. carz89

    carz89 I study nuclear science...

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2008
    444
    47
    0
    Location:
    San Diego
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Good questions and analysis so far, Bob! Keep up the good work!

    I'm anxiously awaiting your findings. I have a hunch that the data will prove that the Prius has fared significantly better at protecting its occupants than other comparably-sized and -priced vehicles. Admittedly, the reason for my "hunch" is due to the pictures I've seen posted here at PriusChat of remarkable accidents in which a completely totaled Prius reveals a passenger compartment very much intact.

    On the pedestrian data... if your findings show that the Prius is involved in an equal or smaller percentage of pedestrian deaths when compared to a similar-sized motorized car, then there's a strong argument against "belling the hybrid".
     
  18. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    13,439
    640
    0
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Speaking of which, another Duffy's Taxi Prius is written off. Police were pursuing a vehicle - what else is new in Winnipeg?? - which blew a stop sign, the taxi t-boned the other car.

    Even more remarkable, a home surveillance system (A wise investment in Winnipeg due to the high crime) got it all

    Taxi driver dodges death | Winnipeg | News | Winnipeg Sun

    Yes, the Prius does *very* well in crashes
     
  19. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    13,439
    640
    0
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius