Long Chat with Toyota Mechanic Today

Matt,

This statement alone would have me looking for another dealer.
I wonder where he came up with that foolishness.
While I haven't done the block heater install yet, it doesn't look all that
dificult:

http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-m...ine-block-heater-yourself-guide-may-help.html

Maybe another PriusChat member in your area will volunteer to
give you a hand with the install.

 

Why would this surprise you? If you don't use the type of oil recommended by Toyota why would you expect them honor the warranty for oil related failures. Warranties are a two-way street. Toyota stands behind their product as long as you do the required maintenance, at the required time, using the required materials.

After the problems Toyota had with engine sludging I would expect them to be very sensitive to the type of oil you use and the interval you change it.

 

As for potential warranty issues with the EBH, it's a Toyota (Canada) part and Toyota built the block to take it.

I use mine year round. I don't have quite the temp increase that Evan reports. Mine gets it to about 60-70 above ambient temp, regardless of what the ambient is. That still shortens considerably the warmup time, even in the middle of summer. I also run it for about 3 hours ahead of time.

I don't know MA geography well enough to know exactly where you are, but Hobbit's in the Boston area. He might be able to help with the install.

 

As others have said it's a Toyota part. It's listed in the dealers third party parts book, most never look there. As Jimbo said the engine block has a hole cast just for receiving the EBH. And as Evan said the engine temp at 0F outside with an EBH run overnight (my recommendation in those temps) would be about 50F if your outside without grill blocking. The thermos actually decreases the engine block temp the EBH heated up. And the thermos won't work below 0F.

How long do you want to wait for an EBH install, I smell a trip coming?

Wayne

 

99% of US dealers are unaware of the toyota canada EBH part. he was assuming the other type of block heater. wrong, yes. but knowing canadian parts catalogs does not fit his job description.

the 2010 technician training modules just came out on TIS a few days ago. i bet many have not gotten around to going through them yet. techs don't generally deviate from specs like oil due to warranty and etc issues.

and you know how hard i/we are on stupidity from techs... take that as you wish.

 

Exactly! Prius in Japan have been on 0W-20 for several years. The main reason it didn't happen in the US was availability of the mix. Your mechanic pulled that one out of his nice person. As long as the oil is within spec you will be fine. There should be no warranty issue. My dealer hasn't carried OW-20 so I have to bring it in for my oil changes. They make a little less, but I get better results.

Best of Luck!

 

FWIW, Bill Kidd Toyota in Cockeysville, Merlin, has 0W-20 Toyota
branded oil...
and will use it in a Prius oil change if you ask nicely...
more than once...
while resisting their insistance that it is not "spec"...
at $7.20/qt. due to it's "newness and scarcity"

 

From other threads I got an impression that there is no benefit of 0W20 over 5W30 unless in extremely cold climate (below 0 degree F?)

 

Regarding the use of 0W-20 on 2G Prius, I offer the following thoughts:

1. Although 0W-20 is an approved viscosity for 2010 Prius in North America, note that the engine in that model is a different design compared to the engine found in Classic and 2G.

2. 0W-20 is approved for 2G use in Japan, but driving conditions and ambient temps are quite different. If you (for example) are driving in the US Southwest desert in the summer, you may be driving at 80+ mph for hours at a time, with ambient temps 110-120 degrees F or more. I imagine it would be hard to find similar conditions in Japan. Therefore I recommend caution if you want to use 0W-20 on Classic or 2G, and ambient temps exceed 100 degrees F.

3. I had been using 5W-30 in my 2004 until ~60K miles. Up to that point, no noticeable oil consumption between oil changes. I tried Toyota-brand synthetic 0W-20 this past winter and oil consumption was around 0.75 quart over 7,500 miles. I would say that mpg improved ~5% due to use of this thinner oil. I returned to 5W-30 for the summer. After driving 3,000 miles on the most recent oil change, it looks like oil consumption is 0.25 quart so far. Was it coincidence that my engine started to consume oil after switching to 0W-20, or was there some causality?

 

I read somewhere that synthetic oil eats the seals of some hand vacuum pumps (the ones that suck oil out from the dipstick hole). Is it possible that it also eats some seals in the Prius engine?

 

I'd go to another dealership, pronto

First of all, almost every new Toyota uses the machined hole in the block for the block heater. As an example, the 4.0 V6 in my FJ uses a similar 400 watt heater that the Prius uses. It's not an immersion coolant heater

Second, I'm not going to get into any flame wars over oil viscosity, it's not worth my time. I recently sold my '04 Prius, and I ran it over 140,000 km on Mobil 1 0W-20, with average 12 month/10,000 km oil change intervals.

The longest oil change interval on 0W-20 was 16,000 km. The oil level went down perhaps 3mm on the stick, which might work out to around 200ml of oil consumption. Oil analysis came back fine, oil was good for more

My FJ appears to like a stouter oil. Had poor analysis results with the dealership recommended 5W-20 (Howcome the V6 in an FJ is "required" to run 5W-20, but the I4 in a Prius is "required" to run 5W-30??), but no oil consumption

So far, with the FJ, have had the best analysis results with Mobil 1 0W-40. Currently running Castrol Syntec 0W-30 (Made in Germany).

FWIW, in the Prius with summer driving, I noted no difference in fuel economy WHATSOEVER whether running 5W-30, 0W-30, or 0W-20. The first summer I had my Prius, I had 3 litres of leftover 15W-40 from the tractor. I ran that for the summer, averaged around 3 mpg less.

Another FWIW: Toyota in other countries will suggest a wide range of viscosity, heavier than a 5W-30, for hot summer operation. A 5W-20/0W-20 is unheard of outside of the US and Canada

And another FWIW: I had the dealership bulk mystery oil tested, and not only was it pure crap, but heavily contaminated with dust and water. But that oil is "required" to keep warranty, although once off warranty, TFB you're SOL

If you live in a moderate climate, and intend to keep the incredibly short 6 month/5,000 mile oil change interval (Prius in EU has a 12 month/10,000 mile interval), a decent quality (Not dealership tote bin bulk oil) 5W-30 should be ok

If you live in a climate that can dip to -40 in winter, a 0W-30 is a good idea. It will have about the same operating temp viscosity as a 5w-30, and provide much better cold start protection. No doubt Toyota will claim the 0W-30 will explode the motor

YMMV, so use your best judgement. Time was, folks had common sense. Now thanks to ambulance chasing lawyers, we have to read through 18 pages of fine print before we even dare change the oil

 

If you switch a motor to synthetic oils fairly early in its life, there should be no issue. My recently sold Prius is proof of that.

I would *never* consider switching a motor over once it had more than 20,000 miles on it. You can expect ring land fill from running conventional oils. Most synlubes will clean up that ring land fill, causing oil consumption

There are decent conventional oils that offer long life, such as heavy duty oils. The '84 Ford work truck at my hobby farm has been in the family since new. Ran its entire life on various 15W-40 oils summer, various heavy duty 0W-30 oils winter

That motor has around 528,000 km on it. Several years ago, I managed to snap a intake manifold bolt off in the head, while checking if they were tight (The answer was, yes). Had to take the intake off, along with the head the bolt snapped off in

Underneath the intake EGR crossover, there was very minor film. Normally, that vintage Ford motor would have a thick cake of burnt oil deposits on it. Lifter valleys spotless.

With your motor, you may now have to accept minor oil consumption. Since you live in a warmer climate, try Castrol Syntec 0W-30, the Made in Germany version. It's considered a "thick" xW-30, may help with oil consumption

Another option, if you feel the oil consumption is from valve guides, is to try one of those advertised "high mileage" oils. I personally don't use them, but maybe in your case they might help

 

An old womans tale. Most synthetic oils contain far higher detergent levels. Once you have a motor wil deposits, they tend to be "self sealing."

Clean out those deposits, expect oil consumption

Another area to watch out for is a conventional rear wheel drive vehicle. Switch a high mileage rear end to synthetic gear lube, expect to change the pinion seal and axle seals. Been there, done that, never again

 

I vote for 0W30 synthetic for everyone. I use that in my Civic hybrids and will shortly in my Prius. 0W20 is a little thin for hot climates but probably good when it gets cold up north. I find it hard to believe that this could ever hurt most vehicles on the road. I am considering 0W40 for my new Dodge Caravan.