Anyone Here Knowledgeable About Black Powder Guns?

Well Bra, you haven't posted up yet, so here's some questions.

1. Are they all muzzle loaders.
2. What kind of "LOCK" do they have. (Matchlock, Wheel Lock, Flint Lock, Percussion or cap&ball).
3. Type of arm (pistol, rifle, shotgun, blunderbuss, multi-barreled)
4. Length of barrel(s).
5. Type of sights (can help, but doesn't necessarily date the manufacture of the piece).
6. Is there artwork, engraving, inlay (if yes, what).
7. Caliber or gauge of the bore.
8. Markings (you listed some, I'm betting there are other marks, proofs, writing)
9. Are the barrels damascus type, bronze or bronze-wrapped or steel.
10. Can you see the rifling, then how many lands and grooves.
11. Is there any accompanying equipment.


Oh... and pics will help.


On a side note... I used to be an FFL, and I have seen some black powder arms that are quite pricey, and quite a few that are "average"... the "average" gun dealer will not have a clue... my Uncle has a wheel lock pistol that has been in the family since they came over in the boat in the 1700's, he was offered $400,000 for it (1982 dollars)... just before I sent him to Butterfields to get it appraised, the local gun dealer (a friend no less) told him it was worth somewhere between $250 and $1000 depending on how bad someone wanted it.

I knew enough that I didn't have the expertise to determine how much it was really worth, even with all my books on weapons... the appraisal cost him $75... it is now insured and in a safety deposit box.

Good luck counselor.

 

You really need to get this appraised by an expert.
Froley

 

When I was in high school there was a (very rich) kid who had several muzzle-loading guns. As in the case of my step-father's, I do not know if they were rifles or muskets. He would take them out into a nearby canyon and shoot them off. Once he got mad at another kid, and loaded his gun with a small charge and a wad but no ball, and shot the other kid with the wad. The biggest damage was to the eardrums of everyone in the room. He was not punished for his prank. It was that kind of school.

 

I'm with Froley on this. By the looks of it, you may have a real jem on yoru hands...

 

Some "friend."

Probably wishing he would have taken $250, then madly rushed off to collect the 400 G's.

 

The pics there so far aren't quite enough to tell anything about the one longarm there Bra... other than it was one that was ordered special, and not a "production" arm.

Also, it appears to be at least a percussion type, they didn't use hammers until after 1800; it maybe a cartridge type, but the barrel ends weren't visible to make that determination... can you see all the way through the barrel, is the hole all the way through... if it is, it is a cartridge type and not a muzzle-loader, and that makes it at the earliest around 1850 or so... they were making damascus barrels up to the 1930 or so... and the pic for the one longarm appears to have that look...

The name Hartmann is associated with the making of damascus barrels from around the 1630's, and there is some modern manufacturing with that name also, but they are not the same manufacturer... yours cannot be from that early with the hammers in the pic... the german/austrian/hungarian area was world famous for making damascus barrels, and supplied them for many manufacturers across the globe for quite a long time.


But in all honesty Bra... there are shops that can make that weapon today in modern metals in any caliber, and fake any finish... that is why I was asking for some more information.

It looks like you have more than one barrel for the receiver in the pictures, and there is significant detail work for decoration, with a fine inlaid burl butt... that would also tend to lean in the custom creation end of firearms manufacturing, and then, only for the well to do families.

A nice little piece.

 

From the lever to break the action and lack of any visible ram rod, I would say it is an early cartridge gun. It also may be a interchangeable rifle / shotgun combo. Multiple barreled rifles were popular in Germany and Austria.

 

Ya know what Bra... my Uncle never did trust that guy the same ever again... even though he was an ex-CHP that he had worked with... well, I mean they remained friends, lodge buddies in fact... but... Uncle Bob just knew he was going to get fleeced from him someday somehow if the fella had a chance... it was a couple of years later when Bob told the fella he had the pistol appraised at B&B and they said they could get him a buyer for sure, and he heard how much some folks were willing to give, he said to my uncle, "I thought it could be Prussian Royalty"...


So... you are absolutely correct Bra... he wanted to take the money and run... at the expense of his "friend."

It didn't happen, soooo... at least my Aunt is a happy gal with what is in their "portfolio" (he passed a couple of years ago... in fact, my avatar, was taken on the day of his funeral service on my way home from the church)... I'm still trying to convince her to send it to Christie's... or Sotheby's... or the annual NRA Auction... she thinks she needs to keep it in the family...

Oh, and Bra... the skinny is... the pistol was originally won in a poker game, during the California gold rush.

Good Luck in Vegas Bra.

 

Those are some "SWEET" pics :thumb:

 

You better have a double barrel on that muzzle loader or shoot me first! That is my sister in law you're talking about Tom.













Yes, i know you're joking.

 

I totally vadered this... funny stuff Sis... ound:ound:

 

Oh gawd, that thing is a beauty!

 

My pops taught me a long time ago, that most folks out there would rather screw you blue, than be honest with you. I'm convinced a lot of "brokers" and pawn shops fleece people this way, and they even snicker about it too

That doesn't mean s***

As long as it is kept in a secure place; that is, under lock and key and with proper climate control

No rush in trying to unload something like that. They're not making any more of them ....

Sure, there is a lot of interesting background with historical pieces like that. I'm just as fascinated with the historical background as I am with the craftsmanship of the actual item

 

Black Powder Guns are cool...

True, which is why she's not ready to get rid of it I gather... I was just thinking she could have a good time on the coins while she was breathing air.

 

A guy in a group of ham radio operators I used to chat with opened a pawn shop. He bragged about what a great racket it was: He'd "loan" a fraction of an item's value to people who were desperate for money, and charge exorbitant interest. If they paid back the loan, he made a killing on the interest. If they didn't, he could sell the item for twice what he paid or more. He was a jerk all around. Even just to talk to he was a jerk.

 

Re: Black Powder Guns are cool...

Yes, that's too bad. Hope she isn't worried about leaving relatives a nest egg. Folks appreciate money a lot more when they have to work for it