Man Based Global Warming....

I wonder if you were so militant about government oppression during the previous administration....

 

For these kind of people,, every question boils down too one answer,, regardless of the reality. At their core,, they are selfish,, and they above anything else,, don't like to be told what they "can or cannot due". They have little or no regard for public good. "I should be able to belch all kinds of Toxic shit, because the constitution says I got freedom". The reason that so many global warming deniers fall into this camp is they don't want to pay the price for their actions.

They share this with the Timothy McVeigh's, the Rick Perry's and the Todd Palin's of the world. (See also the Alaska independence party for those that have forgotten)

Some of this come from the basic greed of not wanting to pay for anything,, some from the notion that because the "govment" wouldn't let me build a belching smoke stack, they stole from me. Much is rooted in a deep seated racism,, having been exacerbated by such things as voting rights acts, anti-lynching laws,,other equal rights acts both federal and local.

It carries on now in anti-immigrant, anti gay, anti-islam, anti anything that might appear "take mine". My kind of patriotism is to speak out against such people!

Happy 4th of July!

 

Well, since you have not posted one FACT supporting your side of the argument, you resort to name calling, which is sure sign you have nothing of substance to bring to the table. Hell, Al Franken IS a clown by trade , and now has managed to steal a Senate seat.

Your creditability on this is ZERO!!

 

And just where the hell do you get off anointing yourself as the shrink around here?

Your statements show a lack of education and understanding. The left is famous for name calling and demeaning anyone who disagrees with your point of view. You have fallen into that trap, and same with Shawn, NO FACTS to back up your rants! (So, what else is new?).

FYI, I have served this country in the Armed Forces for 22 plus years on long and arduous deployments protecting your rights. The least you could do is afford some level of courtesy regarding the responsibilities of government to the community that is America. I resent your generalizations on selfishness. Funny thing is, many on the right accuse the left of the same things you accuse the right of.

The government does not owe ANYONE a living, mate! They owe us a opportunity to succeed or fail, and provide a basic safety net for those that need it (which does not include illegals, mate).

Lastly, I'll leave you with a British proverb:

If you are not a socialist at 30, you have no heart. However, if you are still a socialist at 50, you have no head.

 

While I thank you for your service,,,I am not sure that our choice of where to deploy our military in the last generation has done much "to protect our rights". This is through no fault of the average soldier.

I didn't anoint myself anything, and I am not acting as shrink to anyone thank you very much. On one point we agree,,,neither the left nor the right have a lock on hypocrisy.

I was merely pointing out that we fought a civil war over the issue of succession. The rants of the far right,,ala Rick Perry, the Alaska Independence Party, and indeed Timothy McVeigh sound a lot like the rants of Youfoura etc.

As for your "basic safety net", I would argue there are ever increasing hole in what is at best a pretty poor net. Your are right,, now one owes us a living,, but the mark of compassion is caring somewhat for those that have less. I believe we measure ourselves by how we treat the least amongst us.

As for "illegals" . My native ancestors might have something to say about your "legality",, unless instead of being your "mate" I'm your cous'! (If you don't get the reference,,,)

Icarus

 

If that were the case then yours would be less than zero...perhaps titled 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea.

Funny thing about the military conservatives, they have no problem getting all sorts of benefits for their service (benefits extending to their families)...sucking at the govt. teat from the taxpayers as it were, but when one talks of providing some of the same services to others it is an "entitlement." Same for conservative politicians.

Had an argument with a clown bitching about the civilians taking shelter in an old military shelter during Katrina. He seems to have been under the mistaken impression of what serving means.

It would be great if we lived in a country where employers provided decent health benefits and retirement. That has pretty much disappeared for all except the executive class that gets at least 10 times as much compensation as their performance warrants.

 

So, everyone who fails deserves it? Who decides what a "basic safety net" is? Who decides who need that net?

I hate to tell you that your party doesn't really believe that part about the basic safety net any longer. It's pretty interesting listening to the Christian right creationists talking economics like a Darwinist.

 

Additionally, While we don't have a great history treating our returning vets with great respect (at least since WWII) (I think it is really an issue with the "righteousness" of the cause), we also don't treat others who serve with much respect either. For example,, fire fighters, police officers, teachers,, nurses, nursing home workers, public works workers,, and on and on.

So while I think our current vets deserve the respect that goes with their service,, let's not forget what has gotten us in to this mess in the first place! And let's remember countless others who go about their lives with quiet dignity,, especially when the wheels fall off.

Icarus

 

Where in the hell do get off complaining about Military personnel? At least they have GIVEN back to the country (often at great sacrifice to their own personal life).

The fact that people disagree about the role of government in no way gives you the right to slander anyone who disagrees with your views.

We know at least on Democrat is a clown by trade, and now he stole an election right into the Senate.

I think everyone should be made to serve in the Armed Forces for a two year stint after high school, and give back to this country. Perhaps there would be less complaining from all these socialists.

 

To hell with individual freedom! That'll show those hippies to love democracy!

 

That would be all well and good if it meant you were protecting your country and not playing puppet for someone's grand ambitions and greedy contracts..... I'm sorry but I would not serve in these times because I do not believe in what we are currently fighting for. Neither did my brother who recently left the Marines after 8yrs of service.

 

What is it that the only people who "serve" or "give back" are those in the military. There are many more ways to serve,, as I have suggested earlier,, including teaching, police and firefighters etc.

Arguably, the Peace core and Americore have done more to preserve our freedom in the world than some of our military interventions of late.

Icarus.

 

I did quite a bit of reading before replying. In fact, I researched the numbers personally, and came to the conclusion that the OMB numbers are what was on the graph.

Did you do that? Or did you just rely on someone else's word?

I didn't read the blog post earlier, but the commenter "Mark, Arizona" lays out all the numbers along with a link to the CBO data that supports the conclusion.

 

Not military personnel in general, "military conservatives" who take far too much for granted and go on as you do. As I pointed out, like it or not, whether you work for the armed forces, police, fire, post office, EPA, public education, are an elected official, etc. your pay and benefits are coming from the American taxpayers. If you see that observation as "complaining" then perhaps it is because YOUR CONSERVATIVE PERSPECTIVE IS ASKEW! It was intended to restore some persepective to the atrophied, hypocritical, conservative mind.

I didn't serve in the military although I originally intended to. Turned down my NROTC scholarship because I knew what I would be committing to and knew first hand how difficult it could be on a traditional family. But I still ended up working summers on a closed military base (proudly supporting our efforts against the Russkies during the Cold War) to pay for school. If my country needs me, they have me. That is the history of my family going back to the Revolution and before. What I don't care for is the chest thumping of pseudo-patriot conservatives that are waving the flag one day and "teabagging" the next while talking about secession. (Guess which side my border state ancestors served with during the Civil War? Hint, it wasn't the "freedom loving" slaveocracy.)

Funny thing is that is EXACTLY what you do. See your attempt to paint everyone as socialists below!

You know, this shows just how confused conservatives can be. One minute screaming about oppression...the next you want to force EVERYONE into the military where they have fewer rights and have their lives at risk at the direct order of govt. Isn't this the very sort of "collectivism" that your right wing pundits label as socialism or communism? And you worry about Obama? Normal folks worry about you.

Furthermore I can't see how this would be an improvement for the armed forces. None of my military friends or relatives have much regard for the likely quality of a compulsory military. The effectiveness of our forces is often attributed to the professional nature and our allies seek to emulate it.

And compulsory service would cost a fortune.

Extremist wing nuts going on about socialism really crack me up. At the rate you are going you just might convince the 77% of Americans who don't agree with you that they are socialists (since you paint them that way at every opportunity.) That would not be a good thing for you. Blurring the lines between socialism, communism, and everything else will only hasten your political demise, not arrest it. What's that other word you folks used to hurl reflexively? "Liberal." And how's that working for you now that everyone except for a tiny conservative core is now classified by you as "liberal."

Franken? He didn't "steal" an election, he actually won it. Seems an odd person to elect to me, but apparently a "clown" was considered a safer choice than a conservative by Minnesotans...shouldn't that tell you something about the way you folks come off?

 

Nice post Shawn!

On another note,,, I keep hearing the right wing wing nuts prattling on about how the deficit is going to bankrupt us blah, blah, blah! I didn't hear them complaining about it when their hero Ronald Reagan ran up the deficit,, or when W ran it up even faster. I didn't hear them when W did the first round of TARP bail out for his and Paulson's friends on wall street. Only when it come to saving blue collar jobs at GM and Chrysler, or trying to fund health care for those less fortunate do these guy stand up!

Finally,, the deficit as it is currently configured is ~14% of gdp,,(a not insignificant number I will grant!) During WWII it was over 100%. We solved that in a heart beat with sane tax policy in the 1950's If we just roll back the tax cuts of the W administration we would go a long way toward funding the deficit. If we rolled the tax cuts back to the Reagan administration it would (I would surmise) go to surplus!

All these wing nuts complaining about how they are taxed too much need to REALLY look at their NET/NET tax liability. I would contend it is way less than they really think. They think it is higher because they keep getting told it is by the right wing media,, servicing millionaires interest rather than their own.

I know that my personal tax rate is tiny,, even with a pretty good income,, due in large measure to the tax cuts of the previous administrations. Semi retirement income of ~$50k with a income tax rate of under 5%. Add in my property taxes and sales taxes and it nears 15%. ( I don't figure fuel taxes since I consider that a user fee!) I don't think that 15% is too bad to eat pure food, drink clean water, drive on paved roads, send other folks kids to school, keep the fire dept. handy, hire the police, and indeed protect our freedom with some military!

Now if I factor in our self employed health care cost of ~$15,000, money that we don't call a tax but should as it is in essence a hidden tax, that number nears 40%! I am in almost the worst possible situation for health care coverage. Near 60, self employed (both of us) we buy private insurance for catastrophic coverage because we have assets, no vision, dental or RX coverage. As a consequence we pay full boat for everything! (we have very high deductibles as well). WE can't get any of the breaks group employers get on either the premium or the cost of service. Because we pay full boat,, we end up subsidizing both the poor who have no coverage and get care largely at the most expensive facility out there,, the ER because the ER will help everyone regardless of ability to pay, AND we subsidize the well insured who have been able to negotiate lower fees because of their numbers.

You don't think we can do better as a nation? The argument about health care and having "the govment decide what doctor I can see" is just BS. That already happens,,, it is just that it is the for profit HMO's deciding to do it for you. Wake up folks!

Icarus

 

That sucks so hard. It's sad to think anyone could condemn our health care system in Canada given your situation.

 

The scary aspect of that is that we are in basically good health. Non smokers,, a bit of high bp, few maladies,,couple of crowns, a pair of glasses,,,,

The noise the right wing makes is that "Oh,, this will cost trillion dollars!" So what? We are already spending the money,, we are just not spending it wisely,,, or fairly. The shear overhead of our for profit system must add at least 30% to our costs!

I have lived over half my life in Canada,, and have used OHIP when I was eligible. Yes,, you may complain about wait times,,, and especially for cutting edge care,,, but no one,, NO ONE, goes to the poor house because they get sick. As I have stated all too often,, if Canadians were to spend 75% of what we spend in the states instead of ~50% (per capita) the Canadian system would be the envy of the world. We spend 100% and have lousy care!

Icarus

 

Having 50 individual state bureaucracies for health care is incredibly inefficient. Add to that the nickel and diming of everyone being their own contractor and thousands of insurance companies and the amount of waste built into our system is tremendous. My impression over the past several decades has been that there is far more attention paid (hours spent) to the billing and accounting than to the actual care. And the level of care in this country shows it.

We really need a good customer bill of rights for health care, something that gives us leverage and supports reasonable expectations in our care. Any given service should be billed at the same rate regardless of who is paying. It pisses me off to no end to get billed X dollars then have it cut to X/3 once the insurance company gets hold of it. Why does it make me angry that the insurance reduced my bill? Because it means that when I don't have insurance the same service costs three times as much. It is EXTORTION and should be treated as such. When self-insured I did walk away from some of the exorbitant bills where no real service was received--damned pathetic care, I do better at simple first aid. I've also walked away from bills where one "contractor" never bothered to get the insurance info coordinated with the other providers, after everything else had been paid and yet another duplicate organization appeared with its hand out. If they are that sloppy in their business practices, let the "free market" take care of them and let them fail! I don't take kindly to an industry that just randomly plucks numbers out of the air to see what they can trick you into paying.

 

For those not following the other thread

http://priuschat.com/forums/environ...epa-report-co2-endangerment-2.html#post896126

 

You liberals really just do not get it. Here are some FACTS regarding the health care issue:

Of NICE and Men - WSJ.com

Thankfully, more Americans are waking up to the mindless nonsense that is the socialist liberal agenda:

Support Slips for Tax on Employee Health Benefits - WSJ.com

Even the UK understands that the Obama agenda is not logical:

Climate change, health care and the budget: A squeaker, with more to come | The Economist


Yes, Al Franken stole the election:

Wall Street Journal: How Al Franken Stole the Election The IUSB Vision Weblog

Your argument about the Armed Forces is shortsighted. The Israelis require all personnel to serve six years, I'm proposing only two. Even Charlie Rangel has proposed such a law.

Lastly, instead of you liberals all ranting and patting each other on the back for BS posts, how about some FACTS to back up your drivel? (HINT: You have none, that's why!).