1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Tony's EBH Thread

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Accessories & Modifications' started by TonyPSchaefer, Jul 27, 2009.

  1. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,816
    2,498
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    At Hybridfest, Wayne installed my Engine Block Heater (EBH). I got gas on Sunday and decided that a fresh tank is the best time to start using it. So starting this morning, I'm starting the morning commute with warmer engine fluid.

    Here's the plug-in routine:
    I bought a timer and have it in the garage. It kicks on at 4:30 and kicks off at 6:30. I'm almost always leaving the house between 6:30 and 6:40. This is for summer-time driving. In the winter I will most likely kick it on at 3:30. Priapus lives almost exclusively outside in the driveway. I originally resisted having the EBH installed until I could keep him in a garage overnight because I just don't like having a wire exposed like. There is nowhere for me to plug it in at work. And I'm not sure if I would get in trouble if I tried.

    It's only been one day. It's really bad form to draw conclusions from one data point.
    But I have been suffering with mileage in the mid-50s for the last two tanks. This morning I rolled into the parking lot in the upper-60s. That's far too might to be entirely EBH-related. I suppose it was a good morning but I given the last month I wouldn't have expected that.

    It'll be a couple weeks before this tank is over and I'll keep every one up-to-date.
     
  2. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,816
    2,498
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    DAY 1.
    Okay, it diid seem sot be an oddly vacant day on the roads. There was absolutely no creeping whatsoever. That's always a bonus.

    After the Morning Commute MPG: 69.8 mpg
    After the Evening Commute MPG: 68.4 mpg

    For the record, the trip home is usually tougher on my mileage, involving an elevation of approximately +400 feet, more traffic, and three separate instances of creeping. So a good day is when I maintain the mileage on the evening commute. A great day is when it goes up. Normally, though, it goes down a little.
     
  3. TheForce

    TheForce Stop War! Lets Rave! Make Love!

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    3,461
    537
    0
    Location:
    Wheelersburg, Ohio
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I'm guessing your plugging in at work right?

    Looks like your doing good so far. You should see some good numbers this winter too.
     
  4. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,906
    8,207
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    Are you leaving it on for a good 90 minutes or more?

    .
     
  5. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,816
    2,498
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    I edited the OP to include the information I forgot:
    - Jay, I don't (can't?) plug it in at work.
    - Hill, in the summer I'll have it on for 2 hours and in the winter I'll kick it up to 3.

    Mileage is setting in. This morning is 67.4.
    The first 5-minute block was still at 25mpg. Last night he slept in the garage.
     
  6. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,192
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Tony, I think you'll see benefit from a 3 hour warm up even in Summer. Do you have a Scan Gauge to check ICE/coolant temp?
     
  7. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,192
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    One other tip...set the timer for 7am shut off. You'll be shocked at how fast the temp drops once it's off the heater. I leave mine on the heater until my kids are buckled up and I'm ready to get in and go. There's no danger or energy loss as once you unplug there's no more energy use. But every couple of degrees you can get helps.

    Also, if you think you'll be going out again in your car after you get home be sure to plug it in to maintain temp. I often find I am able to straight from S1 to S4 as much as an hour or so after shut off with the EBH keeping the ICE temp from dropping.
     
  8. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,816
    2,498
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    I do not have additional instrumentation though some of you have pressed me very hard to get some. You missed my birthday, by the way.

    I was thinking about setting the timer to later so I guess I will. I'm going to do this entire tank with a 2-hour warm-up. The next tank will be with a three-hour warm-up. Of course, the ambient temp is always changing so I'm not convinced that it's a fair scientific comparison; thank goodness I'm not a scientist.
     
  9. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,816
    2,498
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    End of day 2 (this will get old soon)
    66.9 MPG after 106 miles. It would have been better except for extended creeping.
     
  10. Matt Herring

    Matt Herring New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    421
    51
    6
    Location:
    North Andover, MA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Is 66.9 your mfd mpg that you are referencing...just jumping into the thread now so want to be up to speed on where you are getting your numbers. i have my ebh in a box right now and will be installing soon so im subscribed to this thread for info.

    and when you say "extended creeping" can you explain what you mean.
     
  11. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,816
    2,498
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    I took this picture this morning. As you can see, the first 5-minute segment is still in the 25mpg range. That's where it's always been. I was hoping the EBH would bump that up closer to the 50 line. As you can also see, once that first segment is over it's pretty much business as usual.

    (Don't take pictures while driving, kids. It's dangerous)
     

    Attached Files:

  12. TheForce

    TheForce Stop War! Lets Rave! Make Love!

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    3,461
    537
    0
    Location:
    Wheelersburg, Ohio
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    What is your drive like during that first 5 min? Speed, hills, stoplights/signs. If I remember correctly I was getting near 50mpg the first 5 min on my old commute when I did not have a plug in.
     
  13. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,816
    2,498
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Hey Matt.
    Yeah, I'm pulling the numbers from the MFD. From the picture I just posted, it's pretty clear that it hasn't changed much. :( But at least it hasn't gone down. :cheer2:

    About creeping: I wanted a term to describe the situation in which traffic if moving extremely slowly. This is important because at speeds below 7 mph, energy is drawn from the battery to propel the car. This simulates a mechanical car rolling forward when in drive. At 7 mph, there is no energy flow. At speeds above 7 mph, energy flows from the wheels to the battery. So when I'm complaining about extended creeping, I'm upset because traffic is creeping along for long stretches sapping power from my battery. When I do get the chance to accelerate, I'm doing it on a depleted battery.
     
  14. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,816
    2,498
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    My first five minutes is like this:
    - House to stoplight: 0.2 miles including one left and one right turn.

    - Stoplight to right turn: 0.7 miles containing two lights that I can usually time properly. Accelerating from the previous light to ~40 mph and coasting hopefully.

    - Stoplight to right turn: 3.0 miles containing three stoplights. Timing these lights is a little more difficult but possible. Speed limit 40; average driver 45 - 50 mph. Some days I can P&G well and some days even I can glide pretty far. It's up and down some hills which requires a decent amount of effort maintaining speed. It ends at the bottom of a hill.

    - Right turn to left turn: 0.7 miles. Starting at the bottom of a hill, I turn right and head uphill on a 50 mph highway. This part blows chunks.

    Now that I lay it out like that, it's a pretty difficult first five minutes. Perhaps I shouldn't complain too much. It's just annoying.
     
  15. FireEngineer

    FireEngineer Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    1,247
    124
    0
    Location:
    SW-Side of Chicago, IL
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Whats your block temp before you leave the driveway?

    Wayne
     
  16. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,192
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Tony,
    with the commute start you describe you should be able to see at least 50mpg that first 5 min. Also, by that 2nd stop you should be going into S4...are you? It would be useful to know your block temp at start and each of the transition points you described.
     
  17. TheForce

    TheForce Stop War! Lets Rave! Make Love!

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    3,461
    537
    0
    Location:
    Wheelersburg, Ohio
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Sounds like your first five minutes is the best you might be able to do. If you use the coolant hack with your EBH you could get S1 time down to about 30 seconds and start using your EV button to do low speed P&G on the first part of your 5 min. Once you get around the 40-50mph mark in S2 or S3 you start to get 50mpg.

    If you use the coolant hack with your EBH all you have to do is make sure the coolant temp is above 100F when you first start the car ( usually is when you use an EBH ) and then crank it up to about 165F. This should shorten S1 down to about 30 seconds. It may or may not take a little longer to get the car to do EV on its own above 34mph after it exits S1.
     
  18. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,816
    2,498
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Try to keep in mind, guys, that I've so far resisted the technical discussions.

    Wayne: I don't know the ICE temp.
    Evan: Which one's S4?
    Jay: huh?
     
  19. TheForce

    TheForce Stop War! Lets Rave! Make Love!

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    3,461
    537
    0
    Location:
    Wheelersburg, Ohio
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    1. You need a ScanGauge or CAN-View.

    2. Prius stages of operation.
    http://priuschat.com/forums/knowled...perating-mode-availability-reference-aid.html

    3. Coolant temp hack
    http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-...448-coolant-temperature-hack-better-mpgs.html


    You really should know all this stuff great mod and member since May 2004 with almost 10,000 posts. :p
     
  20. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,192
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    S4, Tony, is the one where you need to stop with the ICE running and then wait for it to shut off on it's own after you've reached 157F. That's when it'll go into stealth at any speed below 41mph.

    Dude, you've got a good job, you're a "prius expert", get a dang Scan Gauge.