Ethanol gas vs non-ethanol gas?

Sorry to be blunt, but I couldn't care less... averaging 54.1 MPG with my 2010 using E10.

All my Prius (3 models) have ever used for the last 9 YEARS is ethanol blended gas.

Remember, ethanol may carry less energy but it does increase power.
.

 

Yes. Non-ethanol gas will produce better mileage. Since you don't get much of an option, I don't worry about it.

Tom

 

How so?

That last time I looked, the ratings contained a formula to reference whatever oxygenate blend might be used in testing back to a standard non-oxygenate blend. I haven't looked again since the 2008 EPA ratings downgrade, but all the numbers dropped by more than ethanol could possibly account for. And even before that, sticker numbers were marked down by certain percentages from the actual dynamometer tests, also by much more than fuel differences could actually cause.

 

for one notice 4/5 mpg less with ethanol. Have had to use it when on trips not knowing where pure gasoline could be found. How ever am told that ethanol will disperse water in tank. By 12/09 will have no choice.

 

+1 on the 4-5 MPG hit from ethanol.

Just finished a trip to the Midwest and actually lost a little more with the 10% crap this trip but 4-5 is "normally" what I see.

Happy driving,
Chris

 

Hi All,

Ethanol only increases power (and sometimes fuel economy) in every-day older cars with so many carbon deposits, they were knocking on regular gas. The Ethanol gas will have higher octane and result in smooth combustion in many of these engines.

With the higher Octane, engines could be designed for better heat cycle efficiency from the start, but what you can buy, and what you could buy up to this point are not so designed. So, there is no power gain at all, unless the car has through poor repair, or wear developed deposits which increased the compression ratio. The downside of this, is the Ethanol gas will eventually clean out those deposits, and most older cars will be back to getting better mileage and power from standard gas.

 

Ethanol has 70% of the energy of gasoline. 10% ethanol should result in a 3% decrease in mileage. In at least parts of the midwest, it is way more than 3% cheaper, so you save on money if not mileage.

 

Hi Jimbo....,

People are saying 4 to 5 mpg decrease in mileage above. Even if people are getting 65 mpg, and only loosing 4 mpg (down to 61 mpg), that is more than double 3% (its actually 6.1 %).

The only way to get things to work out as you think they do, but actually don't is to either add a turbo charger with a octane sensative waste gate, or a variable compression ratio engine (like a Prius, but with octane sensor, and variable intake valve timing). No cars have this yet.

 

Depending on the car E10 Ethanol can decrease you fuel mileage between 8% up to as much as 15%.

Gas mileage at issue as ethanol phases in | Local & State News

 

I agree there is a drop in mileage, but it is nowhere near the level suggested in that article's story -- 55 down to 39.

It is nearly impossible to get ethanol-free gasoline in the midwest. I've had only a couple of tanks of E0 (as opposed to the standard E10), and I've noticed higher mileage. Even so, it isn't enough mileage to make that much of a difference for me. I'm still getting pretty good mileage (about 52 on my 2007 and 57 on my 2010), so I won't complain.

Regardless of the political debate on support for ethanol production, don't forget that E10 not only burns cleaner than E0, but it also helps to lessen our dependence on foreign oil.

 

Ethanol can increase performance, but only in an engine that is designed for it. I know of no mass produced automotive engines designed to run on Ethanol.
E 10 is still 87 octane, it is NOT a higher octane fuel than E 0. Yes Ethanol will boost octane, and if it were blended with 87 octane gas, then the mix would be higher octane than 87, but it is blended with base stock that is lower than 87, it raises the octane to 87.
The engines that all of us drive will get less mileage with E 10 than E 0
Flex fuel vehicles that can burn E 85 are not engines that are designed to burn ethanol unfortunately,they are gas engines that have been modified to burn E 85th
Ethanol will not come into it's own in my opinion until there are engines available that are designed to burn ethanol.
I think the Indy race series cars run on ethanol don't they?
In Brazil there is an airplane certified to run on pure ethanol

 

Actually 3% loss would be the lower bound, so while the story amount related might be unreasonably large it would not at all surprise me if the actual loss was around 5-10%. The problem is that the 3% energy loss is the most critical 3%...the portion actually used to move the car after other losses and overhead are figured in.

I just drove through 6 states in the Tundra (4 in the Midwest) and filled up with gas in at least 4 of them. I was able to locate what was tagged straight gasoline in all 4 I tried. Some states do have E10 only, like the one I presently live in, so my Prius has not had any ethanol free gas unfortunately.

Price difference for E10 was about 10 cents/gal, around 4% at most of the stations, although some had equivalent pricing for both. I filled with E0 and got about 10% higher mpg in the Tundra on 75 mph interstate than what I was getting with E10 and 5 mph lower interstate speeds.

Ethanol in gasoline appears to be a money losing proposition. Using food crop land to produce gasoline at low conversion is NOT the answer and I'm not persuaded that it reduces our dependence on foreign oil. My results suggest the opposite is true.

 

At least here in Ga., and I believe most states your fuel MAY contain up to 10% ethanol but as the fuel is blended at the jobber and ethanol is not always available, it may contain no ethanol. This changes from one day to the next and of course the percentages of ethanol vary widely. Varying percentages of ethanol will vary your mileage as well of course. It may be one reason why your mileage may not be constant even though your driving may be.
There is a simple way to test for ethanol. Put a couple of hundred cc's of water in a graduated glass jar, fill most of the remainder with the gasoline put the top on and shake it. Allow it to settle, if there is ethanol present, the level of water will rise appreciably as the water will combine with the alcohol and the level of water will rise, of course it's alcohol and water now. If the level does not rise, there is no alcohol.
Many airplanes are allowed to use car gas, but none are allowed to use it if there is ethanol in the gas, that is where and why some test for ethanol content if you were wondering.

 

I've got two questions about the subject:

1) It's been far too long since I cracked the statistics books in college. If you were going to do an MPG experiment between two blends, how many tankfuls should it take for the results to be meaningful? It seems like one tankful wouldn't be conclusive, since there are so many other variables at play.

2) Disregarding the financial factors, is there any physical harm in running an octane 89 10% ethanol blend over an 87 octane "pure" gas? I would guess not.

 

There is no consensus on this. See [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol"]Ethanol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:[/ame]

As an example, here is the official position of Natural Resources Canada on Ethanol (from Canada's policy on ethanol):

On the contrary, this research by Cornell and Berkeley Universities states that:

Hence 1.29 units of petrol energy is required to produre 1 unit of ethanol.

Also looked at [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline"]Gasoline - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] :

• 87 Octane Gasoline: 32.0 MJ/L (megajoule/liter)
• Pure ethanol: 23.5 MJ/L (73% of gasoline)
• E10: 31.2 MJ/L (97,5% of gasoline)

 

From what I understand, if your car was made for a certain percentage ethanol blend, you should not worry as long as you follow the rule. The problem comes from fuel lines/pumps/gaskets/etc of cars not suitable for ethanol that get literally dissolved by ethanol.

This seems to also frequently affect small gas engines (lawn mowers, etc.).

You also need to know that there have been some incidents of ruined engines caused by ethanol blends that were higher at the pump than what was stated (usually should be max. 10%). This has been exceptional though.

I also found this Business Week article that I've read some time ago. Very interesting reading.

For me and my humble opinion, I'll buy ethanol blends only when the Canadian Government forces me to do so or once efficient ways to produce ethanol are found (from wood residue cellulose for example). Until then, I won't contribute to global food shortages and starvation because my corn burning car is helping to push corn prices way up.

 

In Oklahoma City, we still have a choice between E10 and non-ethanol. I've tested it in three different vehicles. In each case, the E10 yielded less gas mileage and poorer performance. For example, my 2003 V8 4Runner averages ~19.5 mpg (in town) on non-ethanol gas and 15 - 16 mpg on E10. It's somewhat sluggish on the E10. The 4Runner spec says to use 87 octane. My wife's '85 Altima V6 averages ~25 mph on E10 in town and 28 mpg on non-ethanol. It's not nearly as peppy on ethanol. Non-ethanol is about $0.20 higher per gallon with increased mpg so it effectively offsets the difference.

My real world testing is good enough for me. As long as I "have a choice", I will not use E10. I'm sorry if you don't have a choice where you live.

 

For what ever it's worth many aircraft are certified for MOGAS (car gas), but none are allowed to use fuel that contains ANY ethanol, at least not in the U.S.. The little C-85 engine in my C-140 was certified many years ago to run on fuel with as little as 73 octane, so whatever the reason for prohibiting ethanol, it's not because of a high octane requirement.
I too won't use fuel that contains ethanol as long as there is a choice.