Consumer Reports loves Fusion Hybrid

Wouldn't that be because the Prius is a hatchback, not a sedan?

 

If only there was some unified system for our references to "type of car"!!

By just about everyone's definition I've seen, the Prius is a mid-size car, not a compact car. The only different interior dimension between the Prius and the Fusion is width. I will grant that is a pretty significant 2", but is it enough to put the cars in two different classes? Passenger room: Prius 94 cu.ft. and FFH 101 cu.ft.

The Prius is a sedan; again, by just about any definition. It has four passenger doors and seats passengers in two regular seating areas, just like any other "sedan." The Prius also happens to have a hatchback. To classify the Prius as simply a hatchback puts it in the same class as smaller, two-door hatchbacks.

Perhaps the EPA is not the best judge of such things, but the Agency puts both the Prius and the FFH in two similar categories: Midsize Car and Family Sedan. As I see it, the FFH will carry three children in back more comfortably, but the Prius will be able to carry the luggage for the whole family. Which is more of the "Family" sedan?

As others have said, though, the better comparison is made between the FFH and the Camry Hybrid. The size measurements are nearly identical, and the rides are much more alike (as well as the general look).

 

Thanks for the response. Here is part of the danger of widely-available info. I know you mean no harm in the statement and only are seeking, as am I, the best information possible. I don't have any more information available, except to point to other threads in PC that have discussed the issue over the years. I could run down those references for you (and everyone else), but I'm feeling a bit too lazy at the moment . . ..

OK, now you've really done it. You've brought attorneys into this!

I'm pretty certain the argument was one made by Ford. There are two things I suggest we keep in mind. First: Patent applications, by their very nature, MUST be public, and anyone can comment on the U.S. PTO (Patent and Trademark Office) documentation supporting a decision to grant the patent. Perhaps Ford missed an opportunity?

Second: If Ford really was developing the technology independently at roughly the same time, but didn't submit patents for prosecution (timely), then it really is a shame Toyota gained some truly significant advantage. If the invention is so good for people, why not allow it to be more widely used? A good, recognizable fee structure for what otherwise is called patent infringement might not be a bad thing.

The patent attorneys reading this post quickly will determine I am not of their bar, but just an attorney.

 

Honestly, after so many competing carmakers basically laughed at them for the good part of a decade for their massive investment into hybrid technology, I think they should have/deserve every single one of those patents.

I think it's a really good example of the way the patent system should work to encourage investment into new technologies. If you spent 10 years and billions developing something, you can bet that you would have your lawyers 'rush in' (note the use of terms there) and patent it up and down.

 

This one comes up almost as often as the stupid "Hummer is better for the environment then the Prius" article. Its just not true.

Source link below:

"The reality is that Ford independently developed its own hybrid system at the same time Toyota was doing its own. The basic architecture of both systems is the same and both are based on the concepts developed and patented by TRW engineers in the late 1960s. When Ford introduced the Escape Hybrid, Toyota went after the Blue Oval for infringing on its patents. Ford had patents of its own on the technology that Toyota was using. Eventually, the two companies reached a cross-licensing agreement that gives both companies the right to build their own systems. Such cross-licensing agreements are common in these kinds of cases, but Ford did not use the Toyota hybrid system. The only other company that uses Toyota's system is Nissan for its Altima hybrid, and they actually buy hardware from Toyota. We continue deconstructing Reynolds' arguments after the jump"

from:

EDITORIAL: Attention Wall Street Journal - Ford does not use Toyota's hybrid system! — Autoblog Green

 

If you've got a subscription you can read this "bang per buck" value & rating report. The automobile categories were Small, Family, Upscale, and Luxury. Prius touring topped the Family list with a five year owner cost of $26,250. Ford Fusion V6 had a 5 year cost of $35,750. The Fusion Hybrid was not listed. Maybe it's like sports; this is a "makeup call".

I've owned two Ford products and that was two too many. Both cars couldn't even get near 100,000 miles without expensive repairs; one needed a rebuilt engine. While I sincerely wish Ford success with this and every other line of vehicles (I don't own Toyota stock and any other company's hybrid success would help drive Prius prices lower!), I am absolutely unwilling to grant Ford a third chance when I know I have a virtual sure thing with a Toyota or Honda (by no means an Insight for me ).

Those who haven't had the pleasure and accompanying peace-of-mind that goes with owning a Toyota or Honda simply don't realize what they're missing. I guess the repair headaches common with Ford, GM and Chrysler products have become an integral part of their owner's lives. For Ford's (and Chrysler and Gov'tMotors) sake maybe that's a good thing. We certainly don't need any more unemployment and vacant factories.

 

On the reliably note, in the US (varies by world region), I do not trust anything but Honda and Toyota and maybe Nissan and Hyundai. Prius is my first Toyota but the history of Toyota reliability in this country speaks by itself. Just look at any auto magazine or consumer reports; Toyota is almost always on the top, coming second to Honda only in few occasions. Never owned a Nissan but Friends that have them are very satisfied and loyal. I owned a USED Hyundai Elantra for 3 years and sold it at 150K miles with no problems whatsoever. I have had many Hondas, never had problems with any of them. I put 200K miles in a Civic over 5 years and never did anything to it besides changing oil, filter, and tires. Yes, you read right, 200K miles!!!!!! That's what I call reliability. Friends with cars other than the 4 mentioned above always have problems, even with relatively new cars.

 

I used to drive BMWs and never had any "problems" with thm. Of course, every trip to the dealer's service department cost WAY more than I'd expected. Like, the $1,000 tune-up for my 530i. The spark plugs were something like $35 each; in a V8, that adds up. A new clutch in my old 320i was around $1,200.

OTOH, my Sienna had very few repairs and they came in at reasonable amounts. Every 25k to 30k miles they'd flush and fill the transmission fluid and it only cost around $65. Pretty reasonable.

 

I got an e-mail reply that they've forwarded my note to the appropriate group. With luck, they may yet 'fix it.' Consumer Reports has been good about doing this in the past. I'm thinking of their 2006 article about hybrid ownership where they failed to include the tax credit. They admitted the math error and fixed it.

My rule of thumb is to first share the problem and let the responsible parties work out the answer. I'm patient as in the long run, reality wins. <GRINS>

Bob Wilson

 

By chance I happened to note on Wednesday that in one of the past issues of CR (April?) there was a section in which Wagons/Hatchbacks were reviewed. They stuck the Prius in there; perhaps conveniently. Who knows, maybe it was a favor to Honda and Ford.

 

From Aug. CR and not Apr. as I erroneously thought:

 

The Consumer Reports "New car ratings & reviews" for 2009 puts the Prius into a category labelled "Entry-level family sedans". Seems they can't make up their mind how to classify it.

 

You' all have better eyes than mine. I tried these URLs:

• http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...gons/ratings-reliability/ratings-overview.htm
• http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/sedans/ratings-reliability/ratings-overview.htm
• http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/small-cars/ratings-reliability/ratings-overview.htm

I found the "Prius Touring" under sedans but no other listing for Prius. I remain curious as to where the 2010 Prius is listed ... if yet. But I'm patient and I'm pretty sure the 2010 Prius will soon be in short supply.

Bob Wilson

 

How about: Simply "The Best".