GM wants a 230MPG rating from the EPA

Re: Chevy Volt - 230MPG EPA City?

Nissan peeps tweeted how Nissan Leaf will have 367 MPG in EPA city test, i found that hilarious .

 

Re: Chevy Volt - 230MPG EPA City?

If they price this around 30 thousand, I'd think they'd do good

 

Re: Chevy Volt - 230MPG EPA City?

this is what i would like to see for EPA tests for phevs:
1. KWh required to charge the battery
2. Miles traveled with full charge in city/hwy/combined tests
3. MPG obtained after full charge is depleted, in city/hwy/combined tests.

this way there would be no confusion and people would understand the importance of their car being recharged all the time.

GM is being utterly stupid, IMHO. I have seen report right now on CNN how Volt is most efficient production car ever (um, production?)... what happens when next year they deliver actual car and people realize that after initial charge is depleted, you are stuck with one very heavy car, one small engine, and one pretty bad mileage. I suspect that there will be outrage and what happens then Mr. Lutz?

 

Re: Chevy Volt - 230MPG EPA City?

Hahaha. I love it.
But since the Leaf does not use gasoline, how can it have an mpG?

 

Re: Chevy Volt - 230MPG EPA City?

i would think same as Volt while running on batteries .
(calculate price of kwh>mpg).

 

Re: Chevy Volt - 230MPG EPA City?

Since the Volt can *only* run on batteries (the gas engine runs to recharge the batteries which in turn run the electric motors, it isn't a plug in hybrid) this should be interesting ...

 

Hi All,

Well, ya know 22.3 mpg is close to 25 mpg most of us get on the first 5 minutes of Prius operation. It could just be warmup dynamics that the Volt is so poor in that 4.3 miles of charge maintaining mode.

 

Re: Chevy Volt - 230MPG EPA City?

I admit it sounded silly the first time I heard it but there is actually some science involved in it, not just some abitrary or random numbers somebody pulled out of their a**.

I hope that not too many of you have to eat your words when the real world results start coming back. I imagine you'll see the truth of it here: Chevy Volt Forum (Chevy Volt Forum, Chevy Volt, Chevrolet Volt, Chevy Volt Owners, Chevy Volt News, Chevy Volt Reviews, Chevy Volt Specifications, Chevy Volt Technical, Chevy Volt Hybrid)

Am I advocating the Volt? It would be a little hasty to do that just yet. Don't forget, Prius had a lot of people laughing at it in the beginning when Toyota overestimated the MPG on it. Like anything there's going to be some growing pains.

 

That is incorrect. That is not how they came up with that number. The number comes from the energy equivalent of the gas as expressed in KWh per gallon.

The Volt gets around 48mpg when running on gas.

EPA confused by Chevy Volt's fuel economy | The Car Tech blog - CNET Reviews

Another way to look at it... Once the batteries drop enough to start the gas engine, the engine is making power faster then the average city driving takes it away. So the charge level is going back up, so the amount of gas being burned at that instant is not representative of the actual mpg.

 

Here is another angle that approximately supports your figure.

Total Volt range, electric + gas, as reported by NBC Nightly News this evening: 300 miles.

Subtracting the 40 mile AER, that leaves 260 miles gasoline range.

Gas tank: 11 gallons reported somewhere in this forum.

Gas-only mileage: 260 miles / 11 gallons = 24 MPG (rounded).

Can anyone confirm Volt's 300 mile range? Gen3 Prius, with almost the same tank size, has a range of 607 miles (11.9 gallons X 51 MPG City).
=====
PS. OK, other sources hint at better gas-only economy. This blog suggest 640 miles / (12 gallons + batteries) = 50 mpg last year, downsized last month to 360 miles gas-only / 8 gallons = 45 mpg.

 

Re: Chevy Volt - 230MPG EPA City?

First, While I want to believe that GM can do this, I will when I see it at my local dealer. Second, in order to be in any sense fair it must measure total energy consumed per X distance. You could convert the whole thing to KWH calculating in the KWH available from a gallon/litre of gas. or convert the whole to thing to net BTUs which just might be a better measure. (Thanks to the poster who pointed out that electrical energy is measured in kilowatt HOURS!) Third, in order for this to have any real success (@$40K) the car must get reasonable BTU/mile after the plug in charge is exhausted, (as well as reasonable performance. We routinely drive coast to coast in the Prius and get ~52 mpg. I would not be very happy if I got 250 mpg driving to work and back, but all of a sudden only got 25 50 miles from home,, for the next 3000 miles! If it's only use is as a commuter car (which is a legitimate use) then the price and the level of trim should be different. I realize that the vast majority of folks only drive ~50 miles to and from work a day, and this would be fine. But if that is all one were to do, I would rather have a pure electric with similar range, for less money.

Icarus

 

Re: Chevy Volt - 230MPG EPA City?

Is it really fair to talk about MPG for the Volt?

Well, if you want to say that starting on a full charge, we go 40 miles on electricity, then m miles on gasoline, what is the total miles/total gas? I don't see anything wrong with this as long as that is what you want to know. I personally think you need to add in the cost of the electricity, but GM obviously didn't do that.

Anyway, how do you get 230 MPG ???????????????????????

Well, the equation is ( if I derived it right )

MPGtotal = 50*(40+m)/m

50 = mpg while on gas (if my memory is right)
40 = miles on a full electric charge
m = number of miles on gas

Some examples:

m = 0 (ha ha) Yes, Virginia, er... MPGtotal = 50*40/0 = INFINITY
m = 11 ------------------------> MPGtotal = 232 ( )
m= 300 ------------------------> MPGtotal = 57 so on a full tank, it's like a prius !!

I guess GM did it based on the average daily drive of 51 miles. What do you think?

 

Re: Chevy Volt - 230MPG EPA City?

mostly on electric?
You have to presume buyers (if they even build 'em for sale) are going to average less than 80 miles round trip ... then presume they get a full recharge at each leg, to jimmy the mpg numbers favorably to say 'mostly electric'. Drive the car on just one long trip, until you have to refill the tank, and 'mostly electric' doesn't apply. That's not unrealistic, either. Disney had a whole batch of Chevy S10 EV's ... and they simply ran 'em into the ground ... only recharged 'em when they would hardly move ... and even then, they'd just put in enough juice so they'd get to the next destination. pathetic. True, 80% of commuting folks travel 40 miles or less ... but that doesn't mean they'll charge right. The folks that travel a whole lot more than 80 miles a day really skew the #'s really quickly. Realistically, standard epa mpg #'s ought not apply to hybrids as the single data bit is extremely misleading.

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Re: Chevy Volt - 230MPG EPA City?

I thought the batteries weren't do-able.

 

Re: Chevy Volt - 230MPG EPA City?

"Under promise. Over deliver."

New GM has absolutely no idea what that means either.
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Re: Chevy Volt - 230MPG EPA City?

Don't your mean, "I thought the batteries weren't doable, even though RAV4-EV's are now 10 years old, and some have gone well over 100,000 ... and they have a range of 100 miles" ??

therein lies the irony. The EV1 would have similar stats about this time had GM not destroyed 'em because they used the same large format Panasonic nickel metal batteries ... (sigh) you gota get rid of the evidence if down the road you're going to whine about batteries not yet being ready for prime time.

 

Re: Chevy Volt - 230MPG EPA City?

this is one of the big deceptions.
Whereas the Prius truly runs on Gas and electricity "electricity generated originally from the gas engine" recaptured while coasting and braking... the plug in prius will be the epiphany of todays hybrid.

I know very little about the Volt as I've spent most of my attention on the Prius.
Some of the concerns I have may be out of my own ignorance but here they are nevertheless......
A few points make me very nervous......

1. The volt is not a hybrid but rather an electric car with an onboard piggyback generator.
Not a bad setup... "if" the electric motor never goes out!
But the prius is equally intimidating during a mechanical failure.... but fortunately, Toyota now has a long track record of success with its technology....

2. Chevy has "no" successful track record with electric or hybrid.

3. What will be the price and warranty? They are now saying 40K?
If so, with what amenities?
Price will always be astronomical as long as they only make a handful or prototypes to attract attention with.
whats the good book say?
(Prov 25:14 KJV) Whoso boasteth himself of a false gift is like clouds and wind without rain.

4. How are they figuring the gas mileage?...... the whole term "gas mileage" will be an archaic term of little value once we go to plugin.
You must factor the "gallons" of electricity you suck out of your power chord and its cost before you can really figure what it cost to run.
The prius does not exactly pay for itself either based on vehicle cost verses gas savings... I suspect the Volt will be much more of an extreme tilt on the "practicality scale" for real use.

As much as I would love to use electricity instead of gas, I fear the wonderful speed, torque, and "mileage" will be short lived as soon as the battery runs out and your forced to run on the electric generation of the 1.0 liter turbo charged gas engine.

5. Even the 0 - 60 mph speed "at full battery charge" is scarcely better than what the 2010 prius will do at all times.

6. The promise of over 600 miles without a gas fillup or electric charge seems wonderful alright, but they don't mention what will be the performance during that venture?????
Once the electric battery runs dry and the gas engine is generating your sole power to run... just how fast will you really be able to go then?... and at what performance????

If you putter along at 35 - 40 mph for 600 miles on a dead battery while running solely on the gas electric generation is not my idea of fun.

to make it clear.... once the battery is dead, you can only run as fast as the 1.0 liter gas engine can provide electricity for..... how fast and fun is that?
As much as I would love to salivate at the prospect of getting one of these soon, I'm afraid that until reality hits the road and several years of proofing runs under the bridge, I would be quite a gamble to just go out and buy a volt.. even if it "were" available.

We all love a good fairy tale and reality rarely makes a good juicy story that sells tickets.

I think the implied promises of this car are over exaggerated and not likely to be seen for sometime..... even by someone as able as Toyota... let alone Chevy!

This car will only be worthwhile for someone with a close commute everyday..... I suspect long trips will be gutless long trips with no speed or performance except for the first 40 miles.

Funny, even the ad on TV shows the Volt barely rolling along at 10 mph!.... What a lame commercial!.. is that the best they can do?

 

Re: Chevy Volt - 230MPG EPA City?

I searched the Internet and read several articles about the Volt. It seems the 230 mpg figure is in anticipation of, or projected EPA rating, that is based on the EPA conducting their analysis over a set distance (unrecalled how far). The figure assumes 40 miles - no gasoline consumed; then x number of miles with the ICE consuming gasoline to recharge the battery. The article stated the figure would be in the "triple digit" range, which, when averaged out, would be 230 mpg.

The images we have seen of the Volt are said to be of the "concept car" and not the pre-production design. The battery is the big IF .... who will manufacture it; weight, cost and longtivity. It is said to be much larger, heavier, and more powerful than the battery in the Prius.

It will be interesting. Oh, the article said that GM is hoping for a $7000 government subsidy. Even then, it said Chevy may loose money on each copy sold.

 

Re: Chevy Volt - 230MPG EPA City?

There are various EV Clubs around the country in which the members build thier own EV s. Thirty years ago normal range was 30-50 miles on fully charged lead acid batteries.(total cost: about $5K) I suppose if one took a small model airplane engine with a prop one could claim 100 thousand mpg/ within a 30 mile range. GM was the big initiator of false and deceptive claims and this claim is by far the worst and MOST stupid of all. I hope there are no naive Americans believing this total crock. It really makes them look rediculous.:cheer2:

 

Re: Chevy Volt - 230MPG EPA City?

You can't really say it isn't your idea of fun if you don't know how it will perform now, can you?
Don't get me wrong, I think GM is setting up the public for disappointment.
But considering that an electric motor is far more efficient than an ICE and that the ICE generator will kick in before the batteries are empty (and designed to keep them from getting empty) I don't think there will be that big of a performance wall.

But like I said, I don't know either for sure, which is why I will be more than happy to give them the benifit of the doubt and test drive one (if they actually make them).