Cash4Clunkers main website update

Dealers do not have to junk the car before submitting the rebate forms to the gov. We can wait until we get an approval now.

That is why I asked if they took copies. A dealer cannot submit for money unless they incude a copy of the signed purchase agreement. Furthermore, I have to include a copy of the MCO (title on a new car). Therefore, if they submitted paperwork, they have a car in your name.

I hear your frustration, and understand exactly where you are coming from. But look at it from our side of the fence. Dianne mentions it in her post also. This whole program has been screwed up from the beginning. Dianne has about the same number of C4C deals as we do.. around 140 give or take. So, just 2 dealers out of 20,000 has over 1.1 million in money that we haven't collected on. In fact, we are getting applications back saying "rejected" and not even giving us a reason anymore. We have no idea why they are rejected. But it kindly says for us to please feel free to re-submit your application.

Imagine you are a business owner. Small dealerships are getting their bottom line killed right now. How are they supposed to protect themselves when the government can pull the plug any time they want? Without some sort of protection, a dealership stands to lose over $3,000 on every car they sold if they don't get funded. But we have the trade in, right? Yes, but it is a paper weight now. Luckily, my owner has enough money to ride out the time to get our money. You can bet there are alot of dealers that don't. Where are they supposed to get the money they need to buy used cars for their lots? Where are they supposed to get the money to buy replacement new cars?

Again, I don't agree with the way they are handling your situation, based on what you have told us. They should be much more diplomatic. However, no reputable business owner, that would like to stay in business, is going to give you a vehicle without some sort of protection. Unfortunately, the government has created this situation. And their rules (which by the way are completely unenforcable as the NHTSA has no legal jurisdiction over dealers) are just making it worse. It is creating an ill-feeling between consumers and dealers that is getting worse by the minute. And it isn't like consumers and dealers were best buddies to begin with

 

I appreciate your comments. Clearly we're all frustrated. That's why I vent here, and when I talk to the dealer, I put on my game face! I made my "deal" (such as it is) the day after the $2B in additional funding was approved. If dealers were so concerned about their risk exposure, I still contend they should have ceased writing new C4C deals instead of playing with the rules, and being less then fully forthcoming with their approach to the program. I just can't get around the fact that the dealers are bound by law (enforceable or not) to follow the rules. What would happen next April if I chose to not pay my taxes because of the negative impact on my cash flow? You think the IRS is gonna cut me any slack? I would also feel a lot better knowing that there was an actual new car being held for me. I hope to resolve that, at least, when I talk to the dealership owner tomorrow (he did leave me a voicemail today, but I was tied up in a seminar all day and couldn't connect with him).

The crazy thing is, my "clunker" is worth at least $4,000 (it's not like a $200 junk car). Worst case, if they don't get reimbursed, they can take the trade, fix it up, and sell it retail for $6765 (acording to KBB)!! They actually come out ahead if they don't get reimbursed! Am I missing something here?? I would much rather see the gas guzzler get crushed, though. That's why I'm buying a Prius, after all!

16 mpg ----> 50 mpg.... yah, I qualify!

 

So what happens if they don't have the car on the lot. I've, done the CRC paperwork - and actually have a purchase agreement with a VIN number - however the dealer could not deliver the car. I am now waiting for them to find another deal to finish the deal.

Is my C4c valid if it takes a few weeks to find?

 

And thanks for clogging up the thread with useless posts, dummkopf! Hey I know another language too! :focus: Please.

 

Ok I wonder if anyone can answer this. If I decide to break the "deal" because the dealership isn't playing by the rules, but they've already submitted the documentation to DOT for reimbursement, can I go to another dealer that is playing by the rules? Or would their submittal be rejected because my old car is already in the system reported as a junked clunker? Once submitted, can a dealership pull a request for reimbursement?

What a mess!

 

At the suggestion of our state association ( VADA ) we did add an Addendum to the contract but in fact the people at VADA did their homework very well. Here's why.

Like most dealers in the beginning we just took in clunkers and delivered new vehicles. When it looked like the program might run out of funding we took contingency orders ( paper deliveries ) with all the VINs noted on the Buyers Orders....but we held up the deliveries until the funding was increased.

Now, since the additional funding is in place it's back to normal..take in a clunker and deliver the new vehicle. No vehicles have been held up for any buyer. But....here's where VADA made a great contribution.

Rather than put the store and the customer at odds with one another by demanding a contingency payment upfront for the amount of the clunker rebate or refusing to deliver the new vehicle unless the buyer agreed to pay us if the paperwork was rejected...we have each customer sign an Addendum that simply says that if the rules change or the paperwork is not accepted then we cancel everything and return the whole transaction to square one before the buyer walked in the door. In dealer lingo...the entire deal is unwound. No harm, no foul.

Every customer has been in full agreement with this protection for both parties.

 

160-ish received here with about 10% paid and 50+% pending.

 

Something is 'off' here. You stated that you have an "agreement with a VIN - however the dealer could not deliver the car". I presume that means that the new vehicle has not arrived at their store yet. If this is the case than nothing is amiss. You and they simply have to await the arrival of the vehicle.

But the last sentence says "I am now waiting for them to find another deal to finish the deal." What does that mean? Do they have a VIN or not?

 

I interpret that to mean you get the Prius back, the customer gets all his money back and his still working clunker. Works for me

 

That seems pretty reasonable to me too. Kudos to VADA! (Too bad I don't live in Virginia!)

 

Yep precisely. Everything reverts back to the point when the customer first walked into the showroom.

 

I had to wait two weeks, my car was sitting on the lot with a sold sign on it, pain in full waiting on govt. payment till the new rules were published on the website. I am piking up my car on Sat. giving them my clunker, no agreement to pay any more, just take it home. AMEN!!!!!

 

I find that to be a generous deal because it seems to me that you are left with a used "new" car. Bravo for you.

BTW, how long does it usually take to get the clunker deal approved by the feds? I ask only so I can stop worrying about my deal.

 

We have confidence in the country, confidence in the government, confidence in our ability to understand and abide by the rules, confidence in the customers to be forthright in their dealings with us, confidence in our ability to recognize something 'funny' being run by us.....as a result we don't expect any cars to come back to us.

If we're not comfortable with the buyer's situation then we simply don't do the deal. Otherwise we are continuing full force in taking in as many clunkers as possible.

Payments are slow-ish ( 10-15 days ) but we have confidence that since we have everything in order for each of these submissions that we will be paid for all of them that we've submitted - as well as for all the new vehicles we've taken in this week.

 

After a day of trading phone calls and emails with the dealership owner, I signed a valid purchase agreement (with a VIN assigned to it) today, and I'll be picking up my Prius on Monday! They would have let me take it home today, except that I'm transferring the plates from my clunker, and there isn't enough insurance on it (and the insurance office is closed on the weekend). Arming myself with the facts and presenting them professionally definitely paid off for me. Thanks to everyone for their input here - it helped a lot!

 

Isn't a used "new" car really a used car? Seems as though if this happens, the car can't be sold as new since it has been titled once. (I think that's how it works here in MA at least.)

Under the Federal rule, you're not supposed to have to worry if they get reimbursed or not. That's between the dealership and Uncle Sam. If the car is on the lot, they're required to let you take possession of it. That was part of the issue I had with my dealer. It's clear as can be on the cars.gov website. If you want a copy of the email that I sent to my dealership's owner, shoot me a message with your email address and I'll forward it to you. Some of it might not apply (if you have a valid purchase agreement with a VIN assigned), so you can tweak it however you need to. It worked for me! (This offer is open to anyone whose new Prius is being held hostage pending C4C approval or reimbursement.)

 

Yes I agree, that's what I was humorously trying to point out and why I think this is a generous agreement on the part of the dealer.

We do have the new car. According to previous posts the rules changed since we signed those agreements to pay and I may not have the protection you have. I was asking about the time period so that I'd have an idea when approval would no longer be an issue.

 

I did a clunker deal 3 weeks ago. I was able to take the car off the lot. The contract inlcuded the Gov't Rebate (pending approval) line with the $4500 credit. I didn't realize it said pending approval until I got home. I not that worried, I gave them all the right paperwork and have heard nothing from them as of yet. So I think the deal in approved and they are just waiting to get paid.

I have been reading all the clunker news since my deal. Dealers are having to wait much longer then originally anticipated for their money. Really I guess the number of deals overwhelmed the program.

In recent news story, I have read that the electronic funds that dealers have been getting have no record of which deal the funds are for. Which means that if they don't get all their money, they have not idea which car they were shorted on. WOW.

So if this is true and no changes are made to attach payments to specific deals, dealers are out of luck if they don't get all their anticipated funds.

N.J. car dealers say 'Cash for Clunkers' program a nightmare to navigate - NJ.com

 

My message is not really directed at you. I don't blame the dealers for watching their back - it's such a typical government thing here: if you (the dealership) want to participate in the program then you have to abide by all the rules - that is, you have to take the trade-in and give the person a car, and then you may or may not get paid. So the customer gets all the goods, and the dealership may potentially get screwed out of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

In medicine we see the same thing. One of my colleagues is the only orthopedic surgeon who will accept medicaid (medicaid is health insurance for destitute people.) Medicaid is basically the lowest reimbursing insurance for doctors, so we get paid the least for seeing medicaid patients. Well, medicaid patients have the highest percent change of being a "no-show" - meaning they miss their appointment, which means the doctor who allocated time to see this patient does not make *any* money when the patient misses their appointment. And we can't bill medicaid for "no-show" appointment. Well, with any other insurance we can ban the patients from our practice - why should we keep making appointments for someone who no-shows and costs us money? Except with medicaid, we can't ban the patient - medicaid specifically prohibits doctors from banning no-shows from their practice. So the doctor will do the government a favor and accept medicaid patients, but then the government puts rules in place that basically screw over the doctor who is doing a favor by seeing the patients. If my colleague didn't see the medicaid patients they would have to travel over an hour away to see the nearest orthopedist.

It's the same thing with this C4C program - the dealerships are helping people out by participating in the C4C program (and yes they benefit too), but by participating they also run a very high risk of getting screwed over by the government.

I don't want to start a political fight - I won't participate - but it sure seems like anytime the government tries to run something they run it into the ground.

 

I read the article in the link you posted. It seems a lot of dealerships are getting rejections because they may have forgotten a check box or something else on the form (dotting your i's and crossing your t's!). So if someone applied on day 1 and the dealer messed up the form they would get rejected and it's possible they may miss out on the whole deal, etc. It's so bureaucratic. Sigh! They must be vogons!