Volt or Leaf?

I voted for the Leaf. You'll need to do oil change for the Volt.

 

I have nothing against GM or Nissan (never owned vehicles from either YET).
It will come down to how the warranties are for the Leaf or Volt.
I think Volt looks much better to me.

Some info I got that is different from that of the OP.
Leaf pricing: expect MSRP from $25K to $30K
Leaf battery: expected to last only 5 years (source: Nissan Leaf website). That is why Nissan will lease the battery instead of selling it.

Since neither is Honda or Toyota, I will pass on these vehicles for the first few years, and let others try them first.

 

For passing interest only:

Locomotive dielsel/electrics: In modern American railroading (excluding trolleys, and trams), the diesel engine only drives a generator. The electricity generated is not stored in a battery, but powers traction motors on each wheel. The faster the train needs to move, the faster the diesel must run to provide the power.

Many years ago locomotive manufacturers experimented with diesel hydraulics, in which the diesel powered the locomotive via a hydraulic transmission. GM developed the dielsel electric, and eventually won the debate. I suspect there are a few diesel hydraulics elsewhere in the world, but no "main-line" railroads runs them in America.

 

where's the "wait for 2011 plug in prius" option? is it still 2011?.. or have they pushed it back to 2012.

the volt is impractical because of it's lack of 5th seat... the leaf is impractical because i need more range just to get to s.f. and back. ( a very common trip )

i voted volt. because i could still go long distance. my travel expense would go down for the 1st 40 miles... after that it's similar to what i get with my prius... 40 mile EV is a chick magnet...

now if i had that plug in prius.. i would get better gas mileage, similar performance, and plug in capability... i could have my cake and eat it too!

 

I've heard GE is at least experimenting with batteries of some of their locomotives.
Something I learned off of the History channel was that steam locomotives were still in use into the 60's. Ease and cost of use of the new diesel/electrics is what ended them, not their lack of power.

 

For the past 10 years I have fired a tourist railroad steam locomotive. There are many reasons for the demise of steam, not the least was they are very labor intensive (Engineer and a Fireman); they generally remain somewhat operable for 30 days (the fire is "banked" and remains hot even when not in service, whereas the diesel is shut down and re-started; coal is not a "green" fuel (some newer engines did burn fuel oil); steam engines each require a crew when "double-headed" whereas diesels can be be control connected where one Engineer can operate multiple locomotives.

BTW, steam engines could hold their own and more against a diesel in terms of power, especially at slower speed. Steam engines were rated by tractive effort, not horsepower, so the comparison is not easily discussed.

 

I love steam locomotives. If I was Bill Gates I'd own one, and an old-style luxury railroad car with an all-girl crew, and cruise around the country in style.

Of course, coal is filthy and wood gives off sparks that start forest fires and diesel oil is filthy and stinks and comes from countries that hate us so you can all be glad I cannot afford it.

 

I voted for the Leaf because I think it will be more dependable and better quality than the Volt.


(note: from a quality perspective, I think GM cars today are up to par with the industry average. In my own opinion, Nissan is below industry average. However, based on everything I have heard and seen about the Volt, I certainly would not buy a first-year model of the Volt.)

 

so with the 10.000 dollar battery cost it wil be a around 100 dollar per month 10 year lease?

edit
only 5 years lease? mmm 200 dollars every month is to high i think.

 

For me its the Volt but by a slim margin. That could change if price or performance of either vehicle changes. Not everything is known on both vehicles.

The Volt and the Leaf are about the same price including the battery lease. Both cars seem to get at least 4 miles out of a kWh. The Volt is able to do longer range due to its gas engine.

Most all of my driving will be all electric due to my 14 mile commute. The magic is these 4-10 times a year I go to another city such as Philly. I can go in the same car I commute with without having to get a rental. By the current known specs I can do this without price or mike/kWh penalty.

If the Volt did less then 3.75 miles per kWh that would be a deal killer or if the price would go up even higher then $40,000 before government incentive.

If the Leaf turned out to be similar to $35000 with battery lease figured in and I still got $7500 from the government that would tilt me towards the Leaf.

 

GM = Crap
Nissan = Not Crap

/not buying a GM at any price for any reason

 

Carrying that heavy battery around while running on an inefficient gas engine, the Volt will probably get lousy gas mileage after the ICE turns on. Of course, we'll never know until they actually build one. Until then it's all just make-believe.

 

You think the battery is heavy? ...... what about having to carry congress, and all the demands, regulations, oversight and control?

 

I'm still holding out for my turbo diesel plugin hybrid which gets 100 miles on only battery and of course has (part time) 4 wheel or all wheel drive to get through the snow.

 

Why a stinky old diesel? How about a Stirling-cycle engine? External-combustion engines have the potential to be far cleaner, and a series hybrid configuration eliminates the big down-side of the Stirling, which is the slow throttle response.

By the way, the president of the local EV club is so certain that U-caps are right around the corner that he is confidently predicting the imminent demise of batteries. He figures he'll be able to build a 400-mile EV by the end of this year. He says they'll have 4 to 5 times the energy density of lithium, at a price somewhere between AGMs and floodies.

I'm not buying any Zenn stock yet, though: I don't share his optimism. It jumped way up when they announced that permittivity test, and when a stock is way up seems a bad time to buy.

 

Daniel why do you still think the Volt is vapourware? As of mid August, 30 out of 88 pre-production Volts have been manufactured.

Pre-production Chevy Volt Test Ride Video - AllCarsElectric.com

All that's left is some fine tuning and significant real world testing. Seems like all the hard work is done.

You have no basis to say that GM will not bring the car to market. You're just being obstinate.

 

I freely admit to being obstinate. But I still say I'll believe it when it's in the dealerships and independent testing shows it to do more or less what they claim it will.

I do hate GM for what they've done to transportation in this country, starting with dismantling the excellent trolley-car system in my city when I was young, and including pushing SUVs on the country and crushing the EV1.

But if they build 88 "Volts" and then never mass-produce them, I'll say I was right.

I sincerely hope I am wrong. But I still do not believe that GM will mass-produce and market a PHEV with significant EV range. (If the "Volt" turns out to have an EV range of 6 miles and then burns gas at 25 mpg, I'll also say I was right, and that the car does not do what the Volt concept was supposed to do.)

Yes, I regard GM as a criminal organization. I am not aware of anything they've ever done that has been good for the country. I hope this is the exception. But extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs, and in this case the only proof I'll accept is cars on dealer lots in sufficient numbers to meet demand, and at reasonable a price. (If they charge so much that nobody can afford them, I'll take that, also, as non-compliance with their promise.)

Any independent testing of range and gas mpg yet? I don't mean that silly-stupid 230 mpg that assumes you never drive it over the EV range. I mean gas mpg after the battery is depleted.

 

Daniel, you have to take GM's claim of 230mpg with a grain of salt.
This is the same with one of the Priuschatter claiming his Prius got 299mpg, he carefully not to mention that his is a PHEV and only run on EV mode only for his trip.
I believe GM will put the Volt on sale but it will be a niche market like the Tesla, only the affordable and tech savvy people will buy it.

 

I say Chevy Volt on this one, hands down.