Toyota to make more fuel-efficient hybrid than Prius

Sounds wonderful. But I wouldn't put too much stock in the 40Km/L datum, which is probably from the Japanese low speed testing protocol.

 

Why not? He quotes the Prius on the same basis, so the new car will get mileage about 5% higher than a Prius (40-38)/40. The Vitz is basically a Yaris, so they're talking about a hybrid Yaris for you US folks (if it comes here). Yawn...

 

There's been talk about a Yaris hybrid already. It's a great idea if you can get it for cheaper and concievably get better mileage but at the cost, of course, at not having any real cargo space.

We're seriously talking about a car without a whole lot more room than a first gen Insight assuming they put it in the 3 door Yaris which is what was in the picture of the first thread on this. Although it makes more sense when it comes to usable space in the car to use the sedan or 5 door Yaris, using the bigger models kind of goes against the whole point of the smaller hybrid which is to create a better value because of slightly enhanced MPG due to the lightweight and a better price point due to the smaller car.

I think if they build it people will buy it. There are still a lot of people out there, myself included, who believe that fuel economy is largely about starting with a small car platform and improving on the little things that make it use more fuel than it should. Some might argue that the first generation Honda Insight didn't sell because it was a small car but the truth of it is the Insight's main problem was it was ahead of it's time and yet it still manages to get close to double the MPG of the Prius when a good hypermiler is driving it. Wanna argue that or just don't believe me? Go to Honda Insight MPG - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum to see the what your competition is doing.

 

Probably be competing with the Honda Hybrid Fit when that comes out

 

The introduction of a Yaris hybrid could be part of Toyota's larger strategy. Before the Yaris, the Corolla was viewed as Toyota's least expensive mainstream car at the time (yes, I'm aware of the ECHO). When the Yaris came out, Toyota increased the price of the Corolla by about $1500, and the Corolla was no longer viewed as Toyota's least expensive mainstream car (the Yaris took that spot). A Yaris hybrid would do the exact same thing for the Prius. As long as the Prius has "a younger sibling," the Prius will no longer be viewed as "a dinky little hybrid" by those in our society that would never be caught dead in an entry-level car.

Even if the Yaris hybrid got the exact same mpg as the Prius, it would allow Toyota to market the Prius as "the bigger sibling" and the Yaris as "the younger sibling." This would place the Prius higher up in the eyes of the public, and it would allow Toyota to maintain a higher price and sell the Prius to people that would otherwise have viewed it as a dinky little entry level car (which of course, it is not).

 

Dang ... another 'real' car from Toyota ... how in the world will we keep the volt versus leaf controversey afloat?!?


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With an electric prototype iQ, with massive computer-controlled regen braking, that gets 1000 "MPG".
-the perfect bait for the media

(or we can just borrow an electric Aptera and slap a Scion logo on it. haha. )

 

You omit the biggest difference between an Insight and Yaris: number of seats. The Insight was a two-seater, which is the main reason so few have been sold, not that it was ahead of its time.

When boasting about the Insight's mileage, do not compare a hypermiler vs an ordinary user. By doing that, you can get any result you like.

 

Yes, I agree that you can infer the hybrid-yaris will have about 5% better fuel economy than Prius.

I'm surprised it isn't better, and makes me think Toyota may be building a HSD-lite system to keep costs down. Pure speculation on my part.

 

I wonder if Toyota is going to offer the hybrid drivetrain with all the different Yaris body types (4-door sedan, 4-door hatch, or 2-door hatch) or is it just for one.

I'd be REALLY interested to see a 4-door hybrid Yaris sedan. It would be like a very updated version of the 1st-generation Prius.

 

40 K per liter, I think, comes out to around 100MPG !?

 

This is excellent news. More hybrids = better hybrids. To quote a line oft used by "the other side," a rising tide lifts all boats.

I'd love it if every car Toyota sold were a mild hybrid or at least had some sort of engine cutoff technology. Why not?

 

Notice how polite Toyota is when competing against GM.

Notice how any time Honda moves Toyota stomps all over them. No love lost here.

 

Yes I agree that this is the next step in the process, reducing the cost in order to expand the basic hybrid technology throughout the entire lineup at some point. After the Yaris hybrid?

Sienna?, RAV?, sports car?, Avalon?, updated Highlander Hybrid? Venza?, updated TCH?

 

Toyota probably doesn't consider GM to be serious competition.

It reminds me of an old Italian proverb -- Never stand in the way of your enemy while they are trying to defeat themselves.

Keith

 

94.076 MPG to be exact


40 KM = 24.855 Miles
1 Gallon = 3.785 Liters

24.855 x 3.785 = 94.076

 

Most of the losses at highway speeds are down to aerodynamics and while the cross-section area of the Yaris is marginally smaller (2.59 m² vs 2.60 m², 0.3% less), the Prius has a lower drag coefficient.

The Yaris is quite a bit lighter, which will help in acceleration, but the stated reason for using the 1.8L engine on the 2010 Prius is to have enough power at low revs to maintain speed at highway speeds. With equal or worse aerodynamics, you'd think they'd have to go with the 1.8 again. They could decide to ignore this factor and go with a smaller engine: probably an Atkinson-cycle version of 1ZR-FE (1.6L), though the 1.33L 1NR might be possible. Going right down to 1.0L is unlikely. Changing down to a smaller engine should help City economy at the expense of Highway economy and acceleration performance.

To save money they'll probably omit EGR and exhaust heat recirculation, which will increase fuel consumption.

5% on a low-speed City test, with lots of stops and acceleration, sounds like it could be about right. Just don't expect 50 Highway.