Has anyone installed the enginer PHEV?

Lithium Phosphate cells are like human. They need team building activity (balancing) in order to work well together.

In first few times of usage, try not to charge or discharge them to the limits. Leave plenty of time for balancing. For example, if you have a 2KWH system, charge it for two hours instead of 3 hours then let it sits for few hours. When you drive, turn the conversion kit off at 10 miles instead of 20 miles per charge. 4KWH would double those numbers.

When driving if you hear the first few beeps, you should turn the conversion kit off. Then the cell will bounce back shortly. But if you keep driving to drain it way too low, it is not going to bounce back above the alert low limit. It will keep beeping until it is charged.

 

Very steep hills will kill your FE because the battery often cannot store all of the regen. But in moderate hills, you can actually use them to your advantage and increase your FE.

Anyone should be able to get 65 MPG with a Gen 2 in warm weather, Just get on the interstate, set your cruise control at 55 MPH, crack open a few windows and turn on your fan. As long as you leave the A/C off you will get 65MPG. With A/C it will be more like 62 if you use it in moderation. The assumption is that your car performs as well as mine does.

 

Cell balancing could take a long time so try to be patient. The balancers can move 0.3A between cells. So lets say that you have one cell at 100% SOC (40Ah) and another at 80% SOC (32Ah). When they finally balance, both will be at 90% SOC (36Ah). That means that the balancer moves 4Ah from one battery to another. At a rate of 0.3A/hr, it will take 13 hours to balance.

Alternatively, you could measure the voltage of each cell in your pack, identify the one with the highest voltage and charge each of the others with a 6V charger until they are all at the same voltage. This method would be quicker if you have a automotive battery charger because the charge rate will be 5-10A, but it is a lot of work. I will do this without the balancers connected because they might not like it. This is the method that I will use (unless Jack objects) just because I enjoy doing things the hard way.

 

Jack,
I just thought of something. Each 2kwh string has 16 cells. The balancers only balance 8 cells each. So it is probable that 8 cells will be at one voltage and the other 8 will be at another voltage. How to those get balanced?

In your website FAQ you mention that the smart charger is manufactured by the battery manufacturer. If that is true, the charger charges first at constant current, then at constant voltage, and finally it sends spikes of current which is needed to top off the cells. It is conceivable that during the constant voltage portion of the charge that balancing takes place.

Maybe I just answered my own question?

 

I was not aware there was an 8kwh kit. I would like to see it when you get the cells.

To the group, I got an email from Jack last evening and he is going to replace my kit in about 3 weeks when he gets some more in stock.
I am glad to report that my issues are being addressed.

I am sorry if I offended anyone here with my earlier post. I was only responding to the request for others experiences.

 

I may be wrong, but I don't think the balancers are 'balancing' when the display says LIFE.

This is from the Chargery operating instructions from their website:

3. Choose the battery type by pressing LIPO/LIFE button
4. Press the Start/Stop button to confirm the battery type and start to balance.

I'm pretty sure your balancers didn't balance your cells. You need to press the Start/Stop button, let it cycle and then make sure the dot is showing after it cycles.

Here are images from the instructions:

 

8kWh kit = 2*4kWh kits + a little ingenuity.

12kWh kit = 3*4kWh kits + a lot of ingenuity.

I have lots of ingenuity.

 

DOH! This is a steep learning curve. I just followed your advice, they cycled and then did the one red dot each. Glad I didn't sell my Celica. Thanks Cabledave for the help. Wondering if I've done perm damage to my batteries from driving home from Santa Ana after the install with them beeping endlessly.

Question: After the lights go out should I cycle them again before I drive the car and write down their levels and if so, it would help greatly if you gave step by step directions on what to plug, unplug, push etc since I'd like to avoid screwing it up if possible and I'm trying to learn the right way to break in the kit. Thanks in advance!

 

I doubt if anything was damaged as I don't think the batteries are that fragile.

You may not see the dot go away as I think they need to be exactly the same for that to happen. I only saw the dot go away once on a balancer yesterday.

The last reading is the important one. That is the voltage difference between the lowest and highest cell. Jack says you want to see this number at .02 or below.

When you have time post your readings for each group and I will compare them to what we have here.

Here are our numbers this morning. I dropped the last digit on the first readings (the cell levels). The second reading is the total voltage of the set and the third reading is the difference between the lowest and highest cell.

Set 1:
3.40 - 3.45 | 27.24 | .061

Set 2:
3.35 - 3.35 | 26.83 | .009

Set 3:
3.36 - 3.41 | 27.18 | .046

Set 4:
3.34 - 3.39 | 26.79 | .056

 

Just checked my readings, trying to use the same format, I'm including the 3rd diget just to be anal about it.

Set 1:
3.345 - 3.359 | 26.81 | 0.014

Set 2:
3.336 - 3.346 | 26.70 | 0.015

I guess they've only been balancing since my last post. So how are those numbers Cabledave? Should I replug the car back in, drive it for 10 miles etc? Thanks!

 

The third number is below .02 so the cells are balanced well and OK to drive.

How long have you charged it this time, before these readings?

I talked to Paul from 3prongpower today and he said we should be careful charging for the first dozen or so charges, then we should be able to just plug it in and let the charger shut itself off automatically.

 

Hello Everyone,

Whew, the Santa Ana installs where busy to say the least. It was cool to meet all of you. I just wanted to say that our preliminary test drives with our 2Kw system has been a positive one (soon to be 4Kw). Thank you to Paul for helping Shawn with my install. He was relieved to have your help.

So far, we are very pleased. There is nothing more gratifying than driving to grandmas in EV mode only, without the ICE EVER turning on!!:rockon:
It was very easy to stay in EV mode because it was all city driving.

It is important to know that before driving in EV mode you should make sure the Enginer Pack is fully charged and the traction battery has at least 50% or more charge.

When you come to a stop light, you can flip the EV switch to the on position (this is why city driving is best for EV) then press the gas pedal gently and be careful not to kick the ICE on. Although, you are in EV mode the ICE is available anytime!! If you need to accelerate quickly, for example someone on your butt, even if you are in EV mode, the computer will kick the ICE on.

So far, the Enginer is producing about 15 miles more per gallon on the highway. We went 65 mph for about 15 min and the traction battery was on green after about 10 minutes on the highway. It stayed green for about 3 minutes before exiting the freeway. We then came to a stop and switched to EV for the rest of the trip. Our average mpg, including highway and EV mode legs were about 75 mpg. This is about a 50% improvement over the regular Toyota hybrid system.

Of course, this is only one of our first tests. We will be proving more data as the days go by.

My brother, who helped me install my Enginer PHEV system, who loves his corvette, and is into high performance vehicles, is very impressed with the Toyota Prius hybrid, and more so now, with the installed conversion kit. He hasn't even given me my car back because he is having so much fun with it. (and he's making sure everything is working properly). Now, he wants one too!! Maybe he'll trade in his 2009 Corvette for the Toyota Prius. Heehee.

So far, we would recomend the purchase of this system to others.The claim of 100 mpg is achieveable, it just depends on how often you can "PLUG-IN".

JOANNA

 

Hello,

I believe the balancer works purely dissipative, i.e. it is ONLY Discharging cells to bring their voltage down. The Energy from the cells is dissipated into heat inside the balancer. So, with the 100 and 80% example from above, the balancer will have to move 20% out of the 100%cell, so 8Ah. At 300mA this will take 26 hours.


ciao

Florian

 

Just got back from a 9 mile test run with the air on (didn't want to get sweat all over my new used Prius) it was 81 degrees outside reading. This was my first test run. Yesterday, I had charged the car for 3 hours before unplugging it.

I was able to stay in EV mode a lot longer but I live on a hill so the first half of the trip was mainly down hill. I took a freeway for one off ramp .5 miles prob, on way over and 1.5 prob on way back. The car did it's be-be-beep right as I was accelerating on the way back on ramp. So, then I remembered Jack said that means you're below the min level and to turn off the Enginer switch. So I did and drove the car home and up the hill as an ordinary Prius. When I got home I took readings they are as follows:

Set 1:
3.318-3.334 | 26.58 | .021

Set 2:
3.301-3.319 | 26.50 | .018

I will charge it for the 2 hours Jack recommends and then disconnect the charger and let the balancers do their thing for several hours. Is it OK to drive it after that or how long should I let it sit before testing it again? I still have my Celica to drive if I need to go somewhere, I just want to drive the Prius till it's broken in properly for now.

3 questions I think I know the answers to but just to be clear...

1) It doesn't matter if the Enginer switch is turned on or off while the car isn't running and plugged in or not right?

2) The balancers should be with the one red dot from now on if the car is plugged in or not right? (I know that no dot means perfect balancing as you mentioned)

3) I shouldn't need to unplug and replug in the tiny wires again to get the LED to read LIFE right unless I goof up and the system gets discharged to low and starts beeping endlessly again right? Thanks in advance!

 

From what I understand you should be able to charge it up again and go if the balancers show you .02 or lower.

 

Just took readings before unplugging after 2 hours of plugging in:

Set 1:
3.379-3.414 | 27.19 | .072

Set 2:
3.346-3.434 | 26.91 | .083

I'll check again in a few hours and give an update.

 

Thanks Florian.

That is exactly why I recommended not to fully charge or discharge the cells for the first few runs (a few days). The factory groups the cells in the same pack by very close capacity based on their final testing. The capacity difference is very little. Once the cells are balanced, they will stay that way as long as the balancer is working.

 

1) It doesn't matter
2) If the balancer has one red dot, it means it is balancing the cells. If it is all blank, it means all cells are balanced.
3) If you unplug and replug in the balancer harness, make sure you see LIFE. If not, press the left button to switch to LIFE, then press the right button to start balancing and read the cell voltages.

 

Since we use off-the-shelf 8 cell balancer to reduce initial development time and cost, there would be slightly different voltage between two 8 cell groups. The difference is very little less than 0.5 in our testing. The tiny difference will not affect battery operation in any way.

We have the balancer manufacturer to develop 16 cell balancer for best performance as we speak. You can exchange and upgrade yours at minimum cost (<$50).

The Balancer is working 24x7 as long as you have it plugged in. That is why 300mA shunting current per cell (7.2AH per day) is enough for our kits.