Toyota to recall 3.8 million vehicles

I also have carpeted mats but I think there is a rubber mat for winter used that holds water and mud in deep groves. And it could be one of those in the picture. From what I have read in these long threads is that it was a hard rubber mat. And there are links to specific models of mats that are of concern, and they show a diagram of a grooved hard rubber mat next to the recalled models, and the part number is molded into the lower edge of the mat. The carpeted mat I have does not have such an ID number on the top surface. So I have been piecing this together as a hard rubber mat, possibly caught on the edge as shown by the NYT. Looking for confirmation here.

 

The hooks on my driver's mats are hooked towards me. No way that mat is going to move. Hasn't for 1.5 years' driving. The mat ends about 2" below the accelerator pedal.

 

I understand this, but what I don't understand is why it is Toyota's fault when people layer their mats and thus causing an issue. That would be like saying Toyota is responsible when people put things on their dash and windshield blocking their view and thus having an accident due to loss of visibility. At some point people have to be responsible for their own actions....don't they?

If the issue, that caused the recent deaths, was because the vehicle wouldn't shut off, then that is another matter. And that is the part I don't understand. Why couldn't they turn off the ignition to stop the car?

 

What appears to be going on is that Toyota is being fairly pro-active about this. Instead of waiting till they have "all the answers" and are in a position to issue a definitive recall they have stepped forward an (essentially) said "There is something going on here that we don't thoroughly understand. Till we have all the answers we recommend that drivers remove their driver's side floormats.

The problem was that the driver was not familiar with the car (it was a loaner) and the correct action might not have been obvious.

 

"Why couldn't they turn off the ignition to stop the car?"

At least two cases with "uncontrollable acceleration" problem per se has Start/Stop power button. Most drivers do not know that you have to press on it for 3 seconds to shut it off. In a panic mode, people would probably keep hitting it, not pressing on it for 3 seconds.
With a key ignition, this goes w/o saying.

 

Yea I just read that in the USA Today. So while the floor mats cause the accelerator to be stuck, the driver (in a panic) is unable to turn off the ignition, if they are unaware of the 3 second hold.

Not to sound insensitive, but drivers really need to take a moment to read the vehicle owners manual. I knew that my ignition button has to be held down for at least 3 seconds to shut the car off. I also knew that it is a safety feature, so I don't turn off the car accidentally while driving (which could cause an accident).

 

Insensitive or not I think we need to analyze this type of accident. But we should not lose site of the fact that he was driving a loaner car. I don't think I have ever taken the time to read the manual of a loaner or a rental before I drove it. Maybe not wise but I bet the vast majority just jump in and drive off the way I have.

The easy solution to his problem was to put it in neutral, that only takes 1 second in a Prius and most likely less in the Lexus he was driving. The other thing that could have saved them was to really come down hard on the brakes, if you don't overheat them first they will stop the car even with full throttle applied.

One thing for sure if I ever have a similar problem I will know exactly what to do and most likely so will the others on this site who have read the threads about this crash.

 

If cars had push button ignitions for the past 100 years, and just recently one model introduced a key, accidents would happen in a few cases of drivers not knowing how to shut the new-fangled key to off in a panic.

 

The harsh reality is that this driver ended up killing his family because he wasn't familiar with his loaner car. Sure the floor mat initially caused the situation, but the driver was not educated enough about this vehicle to turn it off. More reason to read the owners manual from now on people.

I have been driving for 35 years. My plan for this same type of situation is this sequence of actions:

Depress brakes
Set parking brake
Turn off ignition
Trans to neutral

If one didn't work I would try the next. I always keep this plan in my mind.

I don't understand how a person like a CHP Officer, couldn't just put the car in neutral. Maybe there wasn't enough time, as I don't know how long they traveled prior to the crash. But clearly there was enough time for his passenger to make a 911 call.

Everyone should remember, Brakes-Ignition-Neutral. Find an empty strech of road or parking lot and practice. Make these actions automatic in your mind.

 

"Everyone should remember, Brakes-Ignition-Neutral. Find an empty strech of road or parking lot and practice. Make these actions automatic in your mind."

Do we know that pushing the power button for three seconds while moving is safe for the car?
Maybe practicing might result in a lunched ICE or transmission, and it's best to save the idea for the real situation where it might save the occupants' lives.

 

remember the accident that happened was while they were going DOWN a pretty steep hill, so gravity was another thing against them

 

I remember Toyota recommend
Brake->Neutral->Ignition Off,
not
Brake->Ignition Off ->Neutral

It is debatable which is better, but the difference seems negligible considering the fact that your life may be at stake while that is on-going....

BTW, the e-Brake won't do much to stop a high-speed vehicle. It will burn out in a few seconds.
Don't waste time on that unless your power-assisted brake is history.

 

You can do Neutral and Brake or Power Button and Brake at the same time. Once you are in neutral you could just leave the Power Button on so you will have power brakes and steering, or turn it off if you wish.

The important thing is brake hard so you don't burn out the brakes and get it in neutral or powered off as fast as you can. Neutral would be better than Power Off if it takes less time, 1 second vs 3 seconds was posted. I'm not sure mine shuts off very quickly with the power button while setting still. Is there a difference when it's moving?

I agree the parking brake should not be used unless it is an absolute last resort.

 

But there is a lot of stuff in that very poorly written manual. Can Toyota really expect owners to totally digest and recall any element of that manual in a crisis?

Sounds like we need to create a requirement that there be a training course (with a test) before someone (either a owner or someone simply borrowing a car with push-button start) drives off.

 

Yes it's safe and won't hurt your car.

The point of physically doing the procedure, is to instill muscle memory. So unless you are good at visualization, I highly suggest actually practicing. Plus you then get to see, hear and feel what your car does.

 

I will not throw out my mats because I have mine installed correctly AND I don't believe the mat was the cause of the original incident. Calling for common sense from american drivers is also kind of funny!

 

my dealer said he could not order the all weather floor mats due to this but he could order the regular floor mats. was the recall (although not for 2010 prius) related only to all weather floor mats?

 

There has been NO RECALL (yet). Toyota has only issued an advisory (while it figures out just what corrective action to take).

 

Many performance car / race enthusiasts would hate this as they couldn't the the "heal & toe" technique - where you clutch to disengage the engine, while braking with your heal in a turn to slow you down, but revving with your toe to keep your RPMs up so you can quickly accelerate out of the turn.


That said, it's obviously not an issue with a Prius or any other automatic transmission car, and would be a great idea. Does anybody know what happens in a Prius now if you hit both brake and accelerator at the same time? Since the Prius is throttle by wire, I would hope the brake overrides the accelerator.


Also, wouldn't it be better to put the car in neutral and brake, instead of killing the engine first? You would loose power assisted brakes.

 

On GenIII Prius, the vacuum booster is independent of the ignition or engine operation. I hear it fire up the moment the driver door is opened.

One of the articles linked on another thread points out that in cars with traditional engine-source vacuum, when the throttle is stuck wide open, vacuum for power boost is mostly lost already. While the accumulator stores some vacuum, a few pedal applications will exhaust the supply.

I've lost power assist on several past cars, due to stalls or booster failure. All of these cars were quite capable of being stopped adequately without any power assist. But they were also underweight and underpowered by the tastes of most modern drivers. I have no experience with power assist failure at full throttle in today's 300 hp, 6000 pound behemoths. I wouldn't own them regardless.