Toyota's runaway-car worries may not stop at floor mats-LA TIMES

you guys are hilarious

in the Lexus incident, the floor mat was OVER the accelerator and UNDER the brake

stomping on the brake forced the accelerator to the floor ... WOT

and he managed to glaze over the brakes

y'all giving advice about brakes winning over accelerator are giving advice that's going to get someone killed


as i've repeated like a broken record, shifting to Neutral is the solution in every car

if the car is carbureted, and you're stuck at WOT, you'll likely grenade the motor, unless you can quickly and safely stop and disengage the ignition

if your car is EFI, you'll bounce off the rev limiter but keep your engine intact

and if you have a Prius, you'll have nothing to worry about, because manually shifting to N disengages the transmission and the throttle :thumb:

fyi ... pushing the PARK button in the Prius at 3mph or greater also shifts the car into Neutral ... much as attempting to shift any auto trans car into Park will shift the car into Neutral, because Reverse and Park are "locked out"

 

it's not.

 

While researching "Bell the Hybrid" activity in the Federal Register, I came across this:

http://frwebgate4.access.gpo.gov/cg...SdocID=417080283377+0+1+0&WAISaction=retrieve

Sorry for the wholesale quote but the contents are relevant and part of the public record (aka., not copyrighted):

Bob Wilson

 

I didn't have time to read this entire thread yet, but.. are people still blaming the floor mats? I just saw a report that it's the computer that's to blame for a lot of these accidents.

 

Unattributed source, the report is unlikely to be accurate.

Bob Wilson

 

now why after this "incident" would he restart the car and drive it to the dealership for service, rather than call in and have it towed?

i question his knowledge, his judgment, his experience, and his accurate recollection of the incident

why wouldn't he simply shift that car to neutral and brake to safety?

then if the floor mat was covering the accelerator it wouldn't matter as he braked because the engine would not send power to the transmission regardless of throttle position

and the motor wouldn't grenade because it would bounce off the rev limiter?

really, restart the car and drive it to the dealership?!

i no doubt BELIEVE that he BELIEVES that this is how it really happened, but this is FLOOR MAT + DRIVER ERROR

thank G-d no one was killed

this is going to be expensive for Toyota

 

I heard it was a tractor beam from an alien spaceship.

Seriously, people will believe anything as long as it is sensational.

Tom

 

This is the report - Out of Control | Featured Videos | Comcast.net

May have been posted already. I'm gonna do some research & read the rest of this thread when I get home, but it doesn't look good.

One thing I predict though, since this is a Prius forum... will be a lot of people automatically saying it can't be the car.

For the record, I absolutely love my Prius. Best car I've ever owned. But if there is a problem w/ the computer, it's pretty scary.

 

[clipped]

 

i hardly think you're getting knee jerk support of toyota because it's a prius board

i don't have a scintilla of loyalty for toyota simply because i own a prius ...

the car has a number of indefensible flaws, but engine surging isn't one of them

look, if it's the car, then i want it replaced, repaired, exchanged, refunded

i'm not defending a car manufacturer out of brand loyalty

automatically saying it's the car?

ever read malcolm gladwell's book "BLINK?"

there's enough information for an informed consumer to understand the situation, without leaping to the unlikely, the improbable, the more "complex" explanation, the conspiracy and the cover up

 

I did not realize there were so many reports of this unexplained acceleration, and most do not appear to have anything to do with the floor mats. This is dam scary. I think this should be widely distributed and people should know and practice what to do, no matter what kind of car you drive. Drive, brake and shift into neutral if this happens. It appears that just shifting into neutral would have saved some of the people. I remember when the Audi was having a similar problem and it took years to overcome that reputation.

 

Agreed.

While I'm happy with the car overall, some of the things Toyota did in the design are nonsensical (internal back up beep, fuel bladder, fuel display, lack of temp indication for engine or inverter, Toyota's errant oil fill quantities, etc.) and most of the dealer service depts. are 2nd rate at best.

But this whole unintended acceleration bit has been the most overhyped piece of horseshit I've seen in a long time.

 

Did you have the brake pedal pressed down to the floor?

 

We can sneer at the panicky idiots all day, but some number of us geniuses could be killed by their runaway cars. Simple technical fix: car in motion + brake application + gas application = ignore the gas application.

 

Really? You've personally looked into the 2000+ instances of this problem? Especially the ones where the floor mats were ruled out?
You've also decided that the previous 'surge' problems that Toyota has admitted to are 100% fixed?

 

simple fix, don't rely on a programmer to save your life, take responsibility, shift your car to neutral :thumb:


there are times when applying gas and brake simultaneously is necessary or beneficial, just as there are times when turning off traction control is necessary (but not possible in the prius)

i don't want the car thinking for me when i may need to choose an evasive safety maneuver ... i'm smarter and more experienced than the computer ... the car, the gps, the radio, any system, is only as smart as the designers and programmers

hit neutral, live to bullsh!t on a webforum another day :thumb:

 

I agree with you there. The Prius traction control is a real menace pulling out into traffic if there is any water, ice, gravel anywhere in the path--no matter how little of it. And in mid winter this describes nearly every parking lot to street entrance. It is one of my least favorite features and I wish they would detune it so that the system would apply much more torque more rapidly after a brief interruption...or the engine would remain revved for a second or so before spooling down...then trying to spool back up from a torque hole. All for a 3-6" ribbon of water/ice as you enter the street.

 

i hear ya man ... i'm in SoCal, there's no ice, and rarely even any water
the traction control is a total menace ... good call :thumb:

 

Who ruled out floor mats? If it was the customers themselves, I want an independent opinion.

While I am unwilling to declare that floor mats and pilot error account for 100% of the claimed problem, I also haven't yet seen any solid evidence that Toyota is having any more problem than the rest of the industry.

Are they, or is this a case of mass hysteria? Until this question is answered, Toyota drivers should obey Toyota's warnings about mats, and make sure they know the generic stuff about dealing with runaway cars regardless of make or model. But they shouldn't be scared into doing anything special just because they have a Toyota.

 

About shifting to N while driving, it took me a while to figure out how to do it (Prius 2010, I didn't try yet my wife's Gen II), that means it is not intuitive enough.

I was trying to use the same switch movement as going from D into B, short switch and release. I tried this number of times and I was convinced that I don’t have the option of switching to N while driving.

Eventually I realized that you have to keep the switch pressed in the N position until the car flips into neutral; there is a slight delay between the user action and the car getting the command.

I think this double way of behavior in the same car control is a safety issue, and I think it should be addressed properly by Toyota. I can understand that there may be a need to prevent going into neutral by mistake, but it should be implemented differently (maybe with a little safety switch, or different pressure feedback for that position, etc).