1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Found on Road, Dead...

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Patrick Wong, Nov 9, 2009.

Page 1 of 2
  1. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,200
    6,471
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    You might know that FORD has a popular meaning which is captured in the title of this post. This meaning was demonstrated tonight when I drove my 2000 Mustang GT convertible (13K miles, not a typo) to a nearby Vietnamese restaurant for a take-out order. After picking up the food and returning to my car, I found that the engine started but then promptly died.

    After trying to start the engine a few times I went back to the exhaust pipes and could not smell any unburnt fuel. So I decided that the fuel system was the likely problem.

    I found the inertia fuel shut-off switch in the trunk and was able to depress the red button on top of the switch. The car started! I drove the car out of the parking lot and headed for the exit. While waiting at the lighted intersection, the car started to run rough. I shifted into N while waiting for the stoplight to turn green and revved up the engine. It died.

    I could not restart the car. I tried pressing the shut-off switch but it did not move down. Fortunately a couple of passersby helped to push the car back into a parking space.

    I called my wife to pick me up (in the Prius, of course.) After eating dinner we returned with tools, a digital multimeter, and a few paperclips.

    I first tried removing the wiring harness connector to the shut-off switch and connected the two terminals with a paperclip, to rule out the switch as an issue. No joy.

    I found the 20A fuel pump fuse and measured continuity, it was good.

    I looked at my Haynes manual and it showed a "typical" wiring diagram for the 4.6L SOHC 2V engine. That diagram showed that the inertia fuel shut-off switch is the last component in the 12V path to the fuel pump.

    I used my digital multimeter to measure voltage from the paperclip to ground. I was able to register 12V for a few seconds (the control logic shuts off voltage after that time if the engine has not started.) That seems to be proof that the fuel pump fuse and the "constant control relay module" that switches 12V power is good, and that the fuel pump is probably bad.

    Unfortunately replacement of the fuel pump requires removal of the fuel tank, which is almost full of gasoline. So I am going to leave that to a professional mechanic to handle. I'll need to arrange towing from the shopping center parking lot to the repair facility.

    Does anyone have relevant experience, or suggestions regarding an area that I may have missed? Thanks!
     
    #1 Patrick Wong, Nov 9, 2009
  2. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    19,011
    4,081
    50
    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA.
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I only have knowledge on the older 5.0 Fox body cars sorry. :(

    But I will say you are missing out on the fun of dropping the fuel tank onto your chest in the driveway. :p
     
    #2 F8L, Nov 10, 2009
  3. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    15,232
    1,563
    0
    Location:
    off into the sunset
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Or onto the road when the straps rust out, and finally let go over a big bump down a steep hill. :eek:
     
    #3 hyo silver, Nov 10, 2009
  4. ibmindless

    ibmindless Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    206
    19
    0
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Those symptoms remind me of my long ago '75 Triumph Spitfire. It would run and quit, then refuse to start. Usually, after waiting 20 - 45 minutes, it would restart, run for minutes, even hours, then quit. It was some electronic component of the ignition - a relay I seem to recall.

    I wish I could help; I learn so much from your informative posts, but I'm afraid all I can offer is a "bump" to keep your topic near the top.

    Here's hoping someone can help Patrick.
     
    #4 ibmindless, Nov 10, 2009
  5. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    7,512
    1,185
    0
    Location:
    Carmichael, CA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    It does sound likely that it is the fuel pump. 13k isn't old enough, even for a Ford, to have to replace the fuel pump.

    My first vehicle (a 74 Ford Courier) had an intermittent short in the fuel pump. You could be driving 60 mph on the freeway and the engine would just shut off and you would have to coast to the side of the road. Then, if you shut the key off, it would reset and you could start and drive it again until the next time. I finally figured it out by describing the symptoms to the guy at the Ford parts counter and he knew exactly what the issue was because he sold lots of replacement fuel pumps for that model.
     
    #5 dogfriend, Nov 10, 2009
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,363
    15,508
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    This rules out a clogged fuel filter?

    Bob Wilson
     
    #6 bwilson4web, Nov 10, 2009
  7. philobeddoe

    philobeddoe ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    575
    107
    3
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    bummer, join AAA and get that car towed safely to your driveway where you can get a better handle on the problem :thumb:
     
    #7 philobeddoe, Nov 10, 2009
  8. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    7,512
    1,185
    0
    Location:
    Carmichael, CA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    It couldn't hurt to change the filter, but I kinda doubt that is the problem. Ford seems to have their issues with electrical connections.
     
    #8 dogfriend, Nov 10, 2009
  9. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,200
    6,471
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Had the car towed this morning, less than 2 miles to an independent garage. The tow truck driver said he would normally charge $120. It was free since I have AAA membership. I tipped him $20 as he did a great job loading the car on his flatbed, no problems.
     
    #9 Patrick Wong, Nov 10, 2009
  10. Rae Vynn

    Rae Vynn Artist In Residence

    Joined:
    May 21, 2007
    6,038
    707
    0
    Location:
    Tumwater, WA USA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I had a Ford Escort for a short time. It had a 'two block demon'... it would run, drive for about two blocks, and then die. Let engine completely cool, repeat.

    After replacing various things, we finally determined that the cam shaft was warped, and thus when the engine got warmed up, the cam-driven fuel pump stopped working. We fixed it by installing an electric fuel pump that bypassed the mechanical one.

    That was my last Ford.
     
    #10 Rae Vynn, Nov 10, 2009
  11. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    7,512
    1,185
    0
    Location:
    Carmichael, CA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Where is your sense of adventure? :madgrin:

    I have owned Fords and Toyotas. Toyotas because they are reliable, Fords because I need to use my tools every so often. :madgrin:
     
    #11 dogfriend, Nov 10, 2009
  12. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    15,140
    611
    0
    Location:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    Persona
    13,000 miles is probably not the thing. its 9 years old i think. its like all things mechanical. some thrive on daily use. sit too much, problems arise.

    i have Ford truck, much older the tank switch module is bad and has been that way for years (besides, i dont ever need or WANT to put in 36 gals of gas anyway) so just use one tank which is more than enough since truck only moves a few times a month.
     
    #12 DaveinOlyWA, Nov 10, 2009
  13. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,200
    6,471
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    The bill will be ~$900: $600 for the new fuel pump and fuel filter, $300 for labor. It turns out the correct Ford replacement part cost less than AC Delco aftermarket.

    I am told that the tech will not have to drain the fuel tank. Apparently they've got a jack that can be used to lower the tank from the car. Should be done tomorrow evening.
     
    #13 Patrick Wong, Nov 10, 2009
  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,363
    15,508
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Will you conduct any forensics?

    Test pump with 12 VDC source (away from house?)

    Dissect the fuel filter?

    Bob Wilson
     
    #14 bwilson4web, Nov 10, 2009
  15. bedrock8x

    bedrock8x Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    1,483
    137
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    ouch, 600 bucks!!!

    You can get it at ebay for $200.

    New Fuel Pump Module 1999 - 2000 Ford Mustang:eBay Motors (item 110454961288 end time Dec-07-09 11:08:54 PST)

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Fuel...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories


    The gas can be siphoned out through the filler neck last time when I replaced the fuel pump on the Camry., that pump cost $160 at Kragen.


     
    #15 bedrock8x, Nov 10, 2009
  16. bighouse

    bighouse Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    822
    126
    1
    Location:
    Guerneville, CA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    I thought it was "Fix Or Repair Daily"?
     
    #16 bighouse, Nov 10, 2009
    1 person likes this.
  17. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    19,011
    4,081
    50
    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA.
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Patrick. Fuel pumps are cheap if you shop around. $600 buys you an Aeromotive 1000HP fuel pump!! lol

    Check out Steeda's website. Reputable ploace that has been selling mustang parts for years.

    Direct Replacement Fuel pump $139.95

    OR

    Jegs has a Ford Racing fuel pump listed for $235.99. I'm not sure which is the exact one you need.
     
    #17 F8L, Nov 10, 2009
  18. northwichita

    northwichita .

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    481
    102
    29
    Location:
    Wichita KS
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Concerning diagnosis, on some vehicles the fuel pump can be heard running for several seconds when the key is placed in the run position. Good hearing is needed for this, and it may help to be in the back seat as well. I just happened to notice this in a Ford Contour I was starting today, unsure about Mustangs.

    This reminds me of the one fuel pump I did replace in a fuel tank, when I had it back together I remember bracing for the explosion when I first started the engine , as I wondered did I connect those electric wires in the gas tank correctly?, well I'm still here, no explosion.
     
    #18 northwichita, Nov 10, 2009
  19. Spartane

    Spartane Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    149
    43
    0
    Location:
    Mississauga, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Spelled backwards: "Driver Returns On Foot".
     
    #19 Spartane, Nov 10, 2009
    1 person likes this.
  20. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,200
    6,471
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    No - its enough for me to know that the fuel pump had failed.
    Yes. Looks like the Motorcraft list price is $446, plus a gasket for $27. Due to a moment of weakness, I am helping to support a local business...

    http://www.partswebsite.com/fordpar...tid=30197&subcatid=33835&section=6&type=parts

    BTW, the car needs a fuel pump that has a built-in fuel gauge sender. Some fuel pumps that might be recommended for this model year do not in fact have the sender.
    Yes, that too.

    Sigh...

    Lack of sound as well as no unburnt fuel odors helped me to conclude that the fuel system was the problem. Usually a no-start situation is either due to lack of fuel or ignition.
    I hadn't heard that one before, that's great!
     
    #20 Patrick Wong, Nov 10, 2009
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 2