The real price of gas in Germany (and EU for that matter)

I agree that the situation is outrageous, Europeans are being taken. The cure to Global warming, smog " Imitation Trucks " is not thru force, but enticing drivers to use efficient autos. The problem is Europeans have been driving more efficient vehicles for at least six decades now and thier so called leaders are still preaching the same old routine. While the rich and powerful continue to squander fuel and energy they blame Mr average and tax him MORE. Europe should revolt.

 

How do you think the foreign countries pay for their universal health care? Value Added Tax(on fuels and any other products they can tax), Income Tax on health benefits, higher sin taxes (tobacco, alcohol, etc), and inflation.
We Americans are in for 'interesting times'.

 

FWIW, the US Department of Energy posts European gas prices at Weekly Retail PrPemium Motor Gasoline Prices (Including Taxes).

I just noticed it says "Weekly Retail Premium Gasoline Prices" at the top. Maybe some in the countries in question can chime in on whether those are for regular unleaded vs. high octane blends.

 

Not to mention that in Europe all manner of high (er) efficient cars are available to the public including all sorts of high mileage diesels.

To all those like to argue that you can't change "the market" with tax policy/government just take a look at the evolution of high mileage cars as a reaction to high fuel prices!


The Europeans are way ahead of of in terms of sane energy policy.

To those that are getting ready to complain about health care "costs" consider this, How many Germans or French or Japanese or Swedes or Danes of Finns etc are complaining about their health care?

In the USofA we pay about twice as much as the G-20 average, (both on a per capita as well on a percentage of GDP basis, and yet we get third world results. Higher infant mortality, lower life expectancy. All you who are currently insured, be glad, but realize, you are only one paycheck away from having none. Just for the record, in out family, two of us, self employed between 55-60 years old, no major health issues and we pay ~$8000 in premiums, plus co-pays, dental, vision, Rx etc making our AVERAGE medical cost of ~$16,000/yr. Would I gladly pay $1/gallon for health coverage? You bet! Would I pay another $1 to combat global warming, you bet!

 

I'd like to see our fuel taxes raised high enough to at least pay the costs of the road system, and possibly for the military costs of defending 'our' oil fields, without transferring additional monies from income, sales and property taxes.

With this increase, we probably wouldn't need to think about additional carbon taxes or transportation energy conservation measures.

 

The Euros don't spend anywhere near the kind of money on the military that the U.S. does. Hence, more money is available for health care. The U.S. has a military bureaucracy--including the defense industry--emanating from WWII and the Cold War which has to be fed. Part of that is a necessity from being a major power. And part of it is just pure pork.

 

Europeans are not the only ones who are being taken. You need to watch a movie called, "Why we fight" ... which starts out with warnings made by President Dwight d. Eisenhower. As for your statement, "Europe should revolt". Parts of it ARE revolting ... just like many parts of the U.S. !!

Much of the fuel tax goes to alternative energy/transportaion in Europe. In the U.S. the fuel tax goes to do minimal road repairs ... and to line the wallets of life time politicians. Pick your poison.

+1
Ergo my suggestion to andyprius

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High gas/petrol tax stinks. They tax it because we have to use it. They recently increased the tax on ours again. When the truckers tried to protest last time they just took down their reg/licence plate numbers and prosecuted them for obstruction.

It makes us smile when we heard Americans complain about high fuel prices last year. I believe it went upto $3.50 a gallon. Well, at the moment we pay £4.17 a US gallon which is $6.67 as of today and at its peak last year was £5.07 a US gallon or $8.11!

It stinks and there's nothing we can do. I believe they are considering increasing fuel tax in the US - fight it. Once they start they don't stop! They know you have to drive.

On the subject of taxation, we have a car tax each year that everyone with a car has to pay - ranges from £0 for a Prius to £200 a year for a mid size Ford and £400 for a bigger Mercedes. That's £400 ($640) a year on top of the high fuel tax. Then, and this'll surprise you - we pay a tax for just having a tv. Yep £140 ($224) a year just for using a tv!! before you pay for subscriptions.

We have high taxes off to an art over here. Always have had (remember why you claimed independence) and probably always will

 

FWIW, I think many Americans here on PC think that gas prices aren't high enough in the US, or at least not high enough to force people to change their habits and drive smaller, most efficient vehicles instead of the monstrosity class SUVs that we see so much when there's no actual need for most of them.

Time and time again, I see on other forums (which aren't geared towards fuel efficient cars) w/people having the attitude of "I'll drive whatever the hell I want" w/o thinking of or even realizing the consequences. One guy on Tivocommunity who buys monstrosities asked "consequences? What consequences? Higher gas prices?" That seemed to be all he could think of. Never mind pollution, greenhouse gas emissions, the danger to other drivers, its poor accident avoidance capabilities, the US importing 60% its oil, most oil residing in unstable regions of the world, etc.

I was in California at the time and it went well over $4/gallon.

I believe the highest prices to be had in the country were in Alaska Hawaii and California. See AAA Fuel Gauge Report, AAA Fuel Gauge Report and AAA Fuel Gauge Report.

 

I appreciate that higher costs do change habits, but there has to be a happy medium. Perhaps if the tax was ring fenced and used in a constructive way such as extra tax reductions on smaller vehicles or solar for schools or other similar sorts of projects.

There was a lot of resistance to diesel cars over here about 15 years ago when the latest ones came out. We had the same preconceptions as you do now - smelly, noisey etc etc, but the tax was less on diesel and people changed. When word got out that the new diesels were actually quite good and had some improvements over petrol cars despite the higher outlay, more and more people purchased them.

Great, lower co2, less fuel used - so less imports etc etc. So what did the government do? Yep, they increased the tax on diesel so it cost more than petrol! Obviously to make up for the loss of revenue.

I am a taxi driver (for my sins) and we all changed to diesel long ago due to cost savings, but now with the higher price of diesel to petrol, the higher cost to buy a diesel car in the first place and problems with diesel particle filters clogging (they don't like city driving) all the time it now makes sense to return to petrol/gas again.

Hence the Prius

Don't know what point I'm trying to make there, but manipulating tax only works in the short term and can negatively affect people as it has done here. It's ok driving a Prius or Ford Focus in the city and saving fuel, but what if you live in the country and need to tow a trailer or horses?

Maybe there should be more carrot and less stick?

 

Well, I am happy with our gas taxation and resulting high prices. Gas *should* be expensive in my opinion, just to make people aware of the costs related to it's usage. It is not only about drilling and refining costs; there is inherent ecological burden related to *burning* of the fossil fuels, and also the price paid for the road network. Some of you guys in the US often tend to overlook or neglect *that* price in your computations. Hence the high tax burden makes sense for me.

I would never revolt against high gas prices. In fact, I think that gas should be even more expensive. On the contrary, I think you guys over the pond should also adopt this kind of taxation. Heck, it would make such a nice "green" law, and generate a lot of profit for the state - so you could bail out more Wall Street bankers, or perhaps start to pay off your huge national debt to China . Then you shall *really* see people getting rid of gas-guzzling vehicles . Or, more likely, you would see a revolution yourself :madgrin:.

But, on more serious note, I really think that Europe has much more sane, responsible and sustainable energy policy. The "high energy tax" policy really makes the people think twice before they squander. And I don't care that "the Joe public suffers most". Heck, I *am* Joe public myself! I am not a millionaire...

 

Is there much in the way of LPG powered vehicles in the UK? It is very popular in Australia as it is about half the price of petrol. In Adelaide almost every taxi is powered by LPG.

 

I can understand your points, but you beautifully demonstrated yourself that the policy *works* - it made you buy a hybrid . And I really don't think that we Europeans suffer. We just cannot waste resources that much, but that is absolutely correct in my opinion. I don't think that anybody became homeless or starved because of high gas prices. Yes, it may be annoying, but in the end it helps us to maintain healthy energy policy.

BTW, if I ever come to visit Harrogate, I'll surely hire you . I'd love to ride in a Prius cab .

 

I don't know how in the UK, but in our country LPG or CNG is relatively popular and seen very often. The only restriction is that LPG or CNG powered vehicles are usually not allowed into underground garages.

How about an LPG-powered Prius :madgrin:?

 

I thought about it but the loss of carrying space and install cost offsets the savings. LPG is more attractive in big cars with a lot of space and a high fuel consumption to speed cost recovery.

 

Yeah they tried it a few years back but only GM (Vauxhall) and Volvo offered any vehicles. It's about half the price of petrol but fairly difficult to obtain. Maybe 1 in 5 garages have it.

You can get conversions and some of my fellow drivers have gone the LPG route but there are insurance & warranty issues and loss of boot space or range if you replace the petrol tank.

I did consider it when changing my last vehicle as I fancied a nice v6 but ended up going down the diesel route because of warranty worries.

 

paid 79.9 CDN cents/ litre yesterday to fill my truck, which avgs about 18.25l/100 km It was the cheapest place in Ontario

tax chart for Canada

Canada Gasoline Tax Information - Ontario Gas Prices

Ontario tax is 14.7cents/litre, Canada tax 14.3cents/litre + 5% gst
So that is over 50% of the cost

 

Pat, in the 1980's I had a ford Econoline van purchased from a relative. He'd stripped off ALL smog devices. The only (easy) way to get it registered in CA was to switch it to LPG, because LPG back then was exempt from smog rules. It decreased mpg's from about 17mpg to 12mpg. Point is, that you get less 'bang' for the buck ... so in part, you pay less, but you get less per mile. The up side? MAN! You will NEVER believe how CLELAN LPG burns. I swear ... for over 100K miles (the van already had 60K miles on it) I never changed the oil ... yet it still looked as clean as honey. I'd have to add a quart when I changed the filter, and never had the oil anylized ... but it was quite unbelievable.

As for gas tax ~ I wish it was HIGHER. Imagine if everyone paid an extra buck a gallon that went to no-fault car insurance. The more you drive, the more car insurance you buy ... the heaver / worse your mpg is? ... the more insurance you'd thus be buying. Best of all, insurance paid at the pump FORCES EVERYONE to have insurance ... so those of us who are forced to pay for the uninsured would finally be remedied. Best of all? What a GREAT way to incentivize hybrids and EV's !! They'd pay way less ... at least for the first decade, and then you could tweek the system once it encouraged the lion's share of folks to switch over.

But of course that'd take away huge profits from the insurance industry ... so you'll NEVER see that day.

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