Nanosolar on a prius?

I don't think that Nano solar has made it to market in any meaningful way. Consider this, Pv solar, (which I am a big fan of) is area intensive. A 100 watt solar panel might measure 24X40" +-. and the same 100 watt panel will put out ~ 400 watt hours into the battery net/net per day depending on temperature,location and attitude. Just for reference, the regen "car" icon represents 50 wh each.. So covering all the square footage of the car with panels might be a clever idea, but you would be, dollar for dollar, better off installing a real solar panel array, and plugging in the car to it, rather than carrying the Pv around.

For thems that are interested in PV solar, I suggest the following forum: Solar Electric Power Discussion Forum by Northern Arizona Wind & Sun - Powered by vBulletin

 

Icarus, I often read about great solar concepts (not sure if they are just concepts are reality), things like solar panel "paint", etc. Will any of this ever come to the market? Is there anything huge looming on the horizon? Have the efficiencies of solar panels increased significantly over the years?

 

Nearly everyday there is some "new announcement" in the solar world. The key to all these is to take them with a significant grain of salt until they show some sign of panning out.

The reality is that PV solar is fairly mature technology and the advances are coming around the margins, slight efficiency gains, manufacturing gains etc. The real issue with PV solar is that is has to compete (unfairly in my opinion) against grid power that is heavily subsidized. Currently, PV can hold it's own in (price wise) against grid power with reasonable tax credit treatment, potential utility rebates and good time of day metering rates.

Current grid power averages ~$.15 kwh, while direct PV solar is about twice that depending on scale. The difference is that most North American grid power comes with huge hidden subsidies (mega-hydro, federally underwritten and insured nuke, preferential tax treatment for Natural gas, and huge hidden carbon/air pollution cost with coal).

Pv solar will become truly mainstream when the real and total costs of our other energy choices become clear. As we have argued on other threads, I contend that we are not now paying the true cost of our energy choices, and as such we "enjoy" unreasonably cheap energy at the expense of our children's children, children.

The current off the shelf price of grid connected PV solar runs ~$5-10/watt, probably closer to ~$7. As I said, tax credits and rebates can cut that in ~1/2. Couple that with good time of day metering where you might get paid ~$.35 kwh at the very time when your array is at maximum production, and you can get paybacks in less than 10 years. This assuming that energy prices don't rise in the interim. (not a safe assumption IMHO)

PV hardware has a pretty good life expectance, panels 25 years+, inverter ~15 years.

 

Well, if you're talking Nanosolar, I don't know whether they've actually been able to increase their production to the promised levels. Every article I've read has output qualifications like "maximum" and "eventually". Unless they can achieve high output their solar won't be cheap enough for high-output applications.

I can see the obvious appeal of thin-film solar: lower weight and lower cost. But as Icarus points out the problem is output, in particular the on-the-road, dirt-covered output.

But, I'd like to see it done as an exercise, plus I'd like to see a comparison with a thin-film solar system on a Prius with total weight the same as the current solar moonroof system and compare the outputs in real-world use.

 

From what I have read, and admittedly it has been a while, Nano doesn't have a readily available product as yet. As with so many technologies the reality is must slower than the initial anticipation.

Like I said before, putting PV on a Prius is sort of like kissing a frog. There may be the promise of a prince(ess) but you are more likely to get just a frog.

I think for the describe benefit of the solar roof, a similar amount of money spent on grid tie Pv would have way more (useful too) bang for the buck. I understand the whizz bang factor, but when people realize that they are spending ~$1000 to run the ac it tends to blacken the eye of PV in general, reinforcing the notion that it is too expensive.

 

A better idea is to cover the acres of parking that every big box store has with PV solar.

-Electric grid gets big boost during highest demand time.

-Store gets green energy and competitve advantage

-SUV drivers get covered /shaded parking

-EV/PHEV drivers get free fuel while parking

-Investors/leasors get good ROI

-American workers get jobs

True win/win!

 

I love reading discussion about PV energy production. Most likely, because I took a leap in 2008 and got a 5.2 kw array installed on my house. Does this cover my entire usage? Not a chance, but it's about 50% of it depending on whether or not I use the oil furnace or the heat pump in the winter. I've produced about 6500 kw/h of electricity through it during the past 14 months. That is roughly 6 months of energy, probably more depending on conditions. 2009 was a horrible year for PV production here, because we had way more rainy days that usual and considerable cloudiness. I've had 3 RECs sell in the marketplace, mostly because I lost 2 of them because the darn system was freaking confusing and I gave up. Luckily, the company that did my install is acting as agent and posting the RECs for me in DE & PA.

There's still challenges to overcome with PV / Wind / etc for renewable energy, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of those are sorted out within 5 years.

Again, the covering of parking lots with PV is still a challenge. Without almost perfect angling of the panels, you begin to lose efficiency pretty quickly. While it would be a benefit, a typical 200 watt panel is roughly 2 ft x 4 ft. That's a lot of space, and it's got to be mounted somewhere. I would figure that they could put up a post (similar to a light post) and figure out a way to mount maybe 4 panels on each one. That's 800 watts, peak production per hour. How much time does the typical person spend shopping at a store (not counting "shopping season")? I'd say within an hour typically people are in and out. I don't know about you, but that's 800 watts if you are lucky. A top off of a barely depleted battery? Sure. Any considerable charge to say, a 15 kw/h battery? Not at all.

Changes are coming, and there's a lot of good thoughts. However, sometimes implementing them is another issue. Not to mention, grid balancing that the power production companies have to play everyday.

 

Good on you with your PV!

For those that are interested in "real" answers to "real" Pv questions, I suggest visiting this forum. Populated by some very smart folks, including many in the R&D end of PV solar.

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Another idea that I have had, is every power pole that has a service drop (to 240ac) could have Pv mounted on the pole with an inverter feeding into the drop. Think of how many power poles that are out there? Put 4 or 5 200 watt panels on each poles netting 800 watts/pole, pretty simple to do.