CNNMoney: Plug-in hybrid hype gets zapped

The article was highlighted on Yahoo-Autos this morning.

Bob-Thanks for posting the links to the pre-publication copies of the original report. The executive summary was helpful. It seems like the CNNmoney article, and the following discussion here all center around the contents of table S.1 on page 4. After scanning the executive summary and also viewing the Toyota presentations linked at the bottom of post#7 by Philosophe you can get a good feel for the differences in strategy taken by Toyota with the Prius PHV and GM with the Chevy Volt. It seems like GM is pushing the EV envelope a little further, while Toyota is playing it more conservative by leveraging the proven Prius HSD platform, and not going more aggressively after increased EV range. In their presentations Toyota make a convincing case that they've done their homework on this. If you believe the numbers in the National Acamedy of Sciences report, buyers will likely be "up-paying" more for the novelty (Corvette-like strategy?) of the Volt. While the Volt does look very cool...

Green Garage: 2011 Chevy Volt - Hybrids - Jay Leno's Garage

... all this suggests that Toyota is likely positioning itself to shape the market once again. It will be interesting to see how this is reflected in the sticker prices of each of the respective vehicles.

 

Maybe if CNN wouldn't have laid off it's entire environmental, science, and tech staff, they might have been able to write an intelligent article instead of simply spouting anti-hybrid propaganda.

 

For at least a couple of decades, plug-in hybrid vehicles are likely to cost too much for drivers to earn any financial benefit, according to a government advisory group. High battery costs are the main culprit, according to . . . . . snip

Sadly history repeats itself again & again. The above was stated over the milenia ... just change a couple words:

For at least a couple decades, (other Islands that we can destroy) are likely to cost too much to (all us islanders) to earn any financial benefit, according to (the witch doctor). High (outrigger building) costs are the main culprit, according to (tribal chiefs) ...

Soo ... just keep using up all the existing resources ... and hope tomorrow there'll be a silver bullet to cure our dilema. Until then? Sorry ... the payoff versus the expense is just too great.




CNNMoney states the Plug-in hybrid failure is because, "payoff principals" demand something better BEFORE switching. They fail to consider that the USA is funding terrorism through petro dollars ... death & ill health from pollution ... status quo bondage to the oilie industry ... etc. It's as though 911 never happened.

Meanwhile ... Easter Island resources got used up to the point no trees are left ... to even build boats & sail away to conquer another Island. De Ja Vu ... here we go again ... ya gota laugh.

.

 

It's a shame isn't it. It seems like it's nearly impossible to get good quality information from the mainstream media. The essence of this story is in the actually report (or the executive summary) - not the thoughtless "news" articles about it. I would have never seen the actual report summary had I not come to this forum.

Back to the Prius PHV / Chevy Volt comparison I was referring to... I truly hope that GM does follow through with the Volt and that it does do well in the market, vindicating the more aggressive strategy of going for the greater EV range. It would be great to see both vehicles gain market acceptance. Unfortunately, I think the single biggest factor to help both these vehicles in the market would be another spike in gasoline prices like we had in the summer of '08. Who knows - with an economic recovery coming over the next 2 years (cross fingers) the timing might be such that we do see more fuel price volatility occurring with the product releases of these cars.

 

I get the sense most Prius owners have similar (good) reasons for buying. And there would probably be fewer "Prius haters" if buyers were all this honest - instead of arguing that it's cost effective (except in a few rare cases), preaching environmental apocalypse, etc. Prius owners are ahead of their time so far...nothing wrong with that.

 

Actually, to put it bluntly, if we listen to and believe reports like that, there will be no incentive to continue research, if NO ONE buys hybrid or battery vehicles, the cost will never come down.

 

My "payoff" is realized at the gas pump, nice Lincoln town car $46.50 fillup compareed to $22. fill up.Less comfort but easier on pocket book and environment. It IS paying for it self and it won't take 20 years

 

There will always be some people willing to pay much more for the greenest, most advanced car available, but, for the everyday, mainstream drivers just trying to get around and survive...

they want a car they value at the best price. Some value sports cars, others 4x4's, SUV's, some, hybrids, etc...

Most people don't care one iota about the concept of peak oil and the like when the gas station sign says $2.85 / gallon for regular. But some do.

I understand Europeans have been paying at least twice for gasoline as we do. They drive smaller cars and in some places, ride bicycles for getting around.

 

I guess the forces that pushed gas to $4/gal won't be around until 2030. And there will be no need to reduce carbon emissions. Dream on.

 

The American media is big business and is in the ratings game. It's not about getting at the truth, it's about attracting the biggest audience. They are after entertainment, not facts.

 

Under some circumstances it can be cost effective. I've had my '07 Prius for more than 3 years now, with > 100,000 miles. I drive a lot (100 mile daily round trip commute). When the GreenHybrid site changed, I downloaded my data into a spreadsheet, and have been keeping it up ever since - including price paid for gas. Check it out. It has definitely been cost effective for me. - Especially when you consider there is definite value in hedging against potential increases in fuel costs in the future.

- Precisely!

 

The assumption that gas will stay below $4/gallon for the next 20-30 years is OBSCENELY optimistic...

 

Seriously! We are just another Middle East crisis away from huge spikes, something that will happen sooner rather than later!

 

I agree 100%. One of my pet peeves is when people say that they ran a spreadsheet and can't justify the Prius. Huh?

Run a spreadsheet on your clothing and ask how you can justify anything except bulk-buy defective T-shirts. Run a spreadsheet on your house, jewelry, TV, etc. As you say, how about the leather seats, or heated seats, or how about a high performance engine (which you'll never get to fully use)?

There's a pleasure in regenerative braking, in a car whose gasoline engine is off much of the time and hence is more quiet, especially at a full stop. Great mileage is convenient and saves money on a daily basis, even if it's not going to quickly amortize in your spreadsheet.

It's not unique to the Prius, but I love the keyless entry and ignition. It feels rude and insulting when I have to use a car that requires me to pull keys out of my pocket to operate. How much $$ is that worth?

My issue with plug-in hybrids is that so many people cannot plug them in. (Those of us that live in condos, apartments, and even many townhouses.) And they are distracting people from using hybrids which are well-established and could cut their gas consumption in half (or more) immediately. Too many people are waiting for plug-ins to become established, then will wait for EV to become established -- along with the infrastructure that requires -- then... then... then... instead of getting something now.

 

If you are living in a townhouse/condo/apartment, you are already doing more for the environment than owning a plug in.

I took public transportation to work for 10 years. That is way cooler than somebody with a plug in.

 

I think they need to allow plug in owners the chance to finance a photovoltaic cell system in with the purchase of the car. It is something I think many more people need to look at just as an investment. The interest rates are complete crap right now. People should invest in energy for themselves! Sometimes that makes a bigger return than buying a hybrid car at all. Things are changing, just slowly is all. I respected all of your feelings and angles on this. They are all good points and perspectives.

Some of the favorite battery things I've seen is the super-capacitors, and the batteries made by interesting minerals, OR the ones that were made biologically on a nano-scale.