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Future Gas Prices.

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by DaveinOlyWA, Jan 19, 2010.

  1. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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  2. skruse

    skruse Senior Member

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    See: Steiner, C. (2009) $20 Per Gallon: How the Inevitable Rise in the Price of Gasoline Will Change Our Lives for the Better and Heinberg, R. (2007) Peak Everything: Waking Up to the Century of Declines answers your question. Another good discussion includes: Garvin & Munger (26 Jan 2006). Sacramento On Empty. Sacramento News & Review..

    Just plan on it and plan accordingly.
     
  3. mikepaul

    mikepaul Senior Member

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    So food prices will benefit when diesel is also $20/gallon? I think not. Sounds more like food riots a'comin to me...
     
  4. skruse

    skruse Senior Member

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    Current food prices are based on cheap oil. Maize and livestock are heavily subsidized. See: Food Inc (DVD). Yes, cost of food will go up, but there will also be a shift toward more sustainable food production and consumption. Current food production is unsustainable (negative input to output ratio). It takes more Joules of energy to produce beef and other crops than what we get from the crop. There will be more of an effort toward local food and less reliance on food that travels one-half way around the world. Local food may in fact, be at or lower or more sustainable cost.
     
  5. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    Read in the newspaper today that our fuel prices in the UK are 30% higher now than 12 month ago :( so would hope it doesn't go up any more.

    I spent about £7,000 (US$11,000) on fuel last tax year so a 30% increase this year would be disastrous for me, esp with the recession still dragging on over here.

    I was hoping buying the Prius would cut my fuel costs and allow me to have some extra money to enjoy myself, though with a 30% increase in fuel costs it mean I will just stay where I was :(

    I suppose I'll be in a better position than my fellow drivers though.


    Word of warning to you all in the US. There are many benefits to increasing tax on fuel but DO NOT let your governments do it, as once they start they realise they can get away with it and they absolutely will not stop!
     
  6. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    I'm currently reading "$20 per Gallon" and in "Chapter $14."

    So far it makes sense. I have a feeling some of it will come true but others are more based on how the chips fall and how different government interventions take affect. For example, just when we expect large, over-bloated and irresponsible organizations to fail, the government intervenes to save them. Likewise, I believe that government officials will listen to their loudest constituents and intervene when gas becomes expensive. For example, there might be a drop in gas tax to ease the burden even though this will reduce the money available to fix roads and bridges. That temporary measure will have long-term consequences when gas gets even more expensive resulting in less purchases and even less money collected via gas tax.

    Of course, that's just one of the chain reactions mentioned in "$20 per gallon." So far, it's a pretty good book.
     
  7. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    welll one thing the guy says is that prices are low due to the economy. now with the economy improving, it wont take long to reverse that if gas gets up over $5 a gallon much less 8 which will cause the economy to slow down or reverse, reducing gas demand which will lower the price. problem is, that wont probably happen until we are well on our way back to a recession/depression
     
  8. silverfog

    silverfog New Member

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    Had our government done it to any significant extent, we might have saved GM and Chrysler.
    In UK the government has at least a tax reduction option in face of any sudden escalation in crude oil price. The US has little leverage.
     
  9. PriusSport

    PriusSport senior member

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    The problem is this is a consumption country, and any tax to curtail consumption of anything is viewed as un-American. In that sense, we lag behind the rest of the industrial world. How to change the hearts and minds of the mainstream? It will take a seismological event. The politicians are useless. They just follow polls.
     
  10. Texas911

    Texas911 Member

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    The problem is that you can find other reports that says gas prices won't go up that high. So no matter what happens, there will be some expert that will get it right and say, I told you so!

    Here's a bit of truth for you guys, oil prices has little to do with demand, its all the hedgers and traders that are driving the price up.
     
  11. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Hedgers and traders cause short term fluctuations in the price of oil, but they cannot control prices over the long haul. The limiting factors become the need to store the oil while waiting for prices to rise and the money to pay for the stored oil. Admittedly, there is more storage and money available than any sane person would have expected, but that only means that the "short term" is several years rather than several weeks.

    Ultimately, the ratio of supply to demand drives the price.

    Tom
     
  12. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    i think we will have a run up in prices that will slow the economy, lower demand, cause a drop which will settle at a higher price. if we look at long term prices, its past time for a bump up.

    so the big question, how high does it have to go to hurt us? well, it went to $4.50 in 2008, but the economy was much healthier then. so i am guessing touching $4 is all we will need this time.
     
  13. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    While hedgers and traders do have some affect on the fluctuations in price, there is definately a 'floor' to the price which is largely dependent on supply and demand.
    The traders are basically gambling on where they THINK the supply and demand will be in 1,2,6 months out. This can give short term increase or decreases to the fundamental price.
     
  14. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    true, its already been pretty much verified that the run up in 2008 went to far and was fueled by speculation. this run up will over shoot the market, correct itself and probably do exactly what it has done nearly every year for past several years and settle about a quarter higher.

    around here, gas was settled at between $2.60 and 2.70... so i am predicting when the dust settles some time this late fall, gas will be around 2.90 to $3
     
  15. ajc

    ajc Member

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    When summer hits gas prices could be around $3 - 3.25 per gal. :eek:
     
  16. hockeydad

    hockeydad New Member

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    Partially correct. Supply (also) has a big part to play in setting prices.

    EIA - Short-Term Energy Outlook

    "Escalating crude oil prices drive the annual average regular-grade gasoline retail price from $2.35 per gallon in 2009 to $2.84 in 2010 and $2.96 in 2011. Pump prices are likely to pass $3 per gallon at some point during the upcoming spring and summer. Projected annual average diesel fuel retail prices are $2.98 and $3.14 per gallon, respectively, in 2010 and 2011."

    Frequently Asked Questions About Gas Prices
     
  17. F512M

    F512M Member

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    I think it will depend on how the economy is doing, which will either increase or decrease the demand.