Latest Toyota recall includes NO Prius models

I've done my share of driving around the world and some countries are much worse than the US. Really, people are the same everywhere. Look at youtube and traffic in some countries. There is so much hostility on this site nowadays.

 

Clearly, there's no way to quantify this, but I would have to strongly disagree. Are there examples of drivers in all countries that can't control their vehicles? Sure. But if you look at most narrow, windy and congested roads in most European cities, I say many Americans would be very hard pressed to navigate on these types of roads with any kind of regularity. I know my own wife, who's a pretty competent driver, was freaked out the first time she had to drive in London (and not just because of the side of the road thing).

I think drivers in England, Germany, Austria, Switzerland and pretty much all the Scandianavian countries - on average - are especially more adapt at controlling their vehicles under the most demanding of driving conditions. Most Europeans that I know simply love to drive. They enjoy the experience, and to many, it's an art form. While most American's with their big trucks, SUVs and mini-vans look at driving simply as a means to an end, to get from point A to point B with all the same luxuries and amenities they have at home. For these millions of US drivers, it's not about the driving experience. Both of my boys (now in college) learned on and drive stick-shift cars. They learned what you can make that car do if you drive a stick, versus an automatic tranny. Find any young adult in this country that can drive a stick - today?! They are far and few between....and don't say they aren't, because not one of my two boys friends, from either high school or college, can drive a stick. Give me a stick, and you drive an identical car with an automatic, and i guarentee you that I can make my car do things that you can't. But hey, Americans can't be bothered with such things as a manual transmission - too much work.

It's no accident that pretty much all the top Formula 1 drivers are foreign born. US drivers can drive in an oval - NASCAR.

 

I think we're forgetting about the drivers in India, China, other non-European countries. Trust me, they can be pretty bad there.

 

Gives me more confidence in Toyota to Quit selling cars until the problem is resolved.Must mean gazillions in revenue. If the Hybrid is the only thing left to sell one better buy now rather than wait

 

China is the worst. But I was speaking about European countries, or in countries where most of the adult population has been driving for as long as they have in the US. Not fair to compare with developing (in terms of driving skills) countires like Inda or China. Up until very recently, owning a car was well beyond the financial reach of most in India or China....and maybe still is?

 

That was one of my points to the nervous Toyota owner from NJ. If anything, this will help Prius sales. if anything, those that are on the fense between a prius and some other Toyota product may now move in the direction of buying a Prius.

 

Let me find my fireretardant suit before I post anything.

Ok, well it seems to me that a little addition to the programing that could cut or seriously decrease fuel flow when the brakes are applied would help tremendously.

Just a thought, no proof other than it just makes some sense.

 

I see. You are comparing the US to a few Northern European countries with homogeneous populations. And you want driving excitement and driving on curving roads with precision and a stick shift.

I am glad you clarified you statement. I have nothing to add. After some thinking, I decided I don't want to discuss this issue.

 

Ummm, no. Not a few. Pretty much all of Europe that has similar numbers of years where adults have been driving to that of the US.

Try reading all, and not "cherry picking" a few choice comments. Not just curvy roads with drivers that can work a manual. You sort a missed the point. These are examples of why I say - on average - these populations are better drivers. They have more control of their vehicles because the conditions they drive in - e.g., narrow, windy, congested roads, etc - demands that they develop their skills. Survival of the fittest.

As to homogeneity of the populations...perhaps you would like to explain why that is significant? I'm certainly not bringing race, or ethnic origins into this...but I guess you want to? Go ahead, lets hear the reasons why?

So lets hear your examples of why you think "we're all the same"?? Hate to break the news to ya, but we're NOT all the same. I could give so many examples, it would fill up the computer servers disk space... Not only are we NOT all the same (in many characteristics...and not just driving skills), but the bigger question to ask is - why do we have to be?


FYI - I wouldn't call England as "northern European". But whatever.

Oh, I see what you pet-peeve is now - you don't like Europeans cuttting in front of you at Disney World, and the way they walk. Bwhahahahaha. This has got to be the funniest thing I've read yet on this board.

 

Here we go again. OK. I was going to let it rest.

I was referring to compared to the United States. Your original post was quite racist. You drove around in northern Europe.

Comparing the US with "a few countries" but of course, you are talking about a few countries to the north of Europe. You conveniently leave out Asian drivers, African drivers, South American drivers. Europe is not the rest of the world. You are so Eurocentric.

And yes. I see your point about cutting in line exactly. You don't care about cutting in front of others. Just as I suspect - a sense of fair play is not part of your culture.

And your pet peeve, you don't like "overweight Americans." See your previous post. They don't conform to your standards of the ideal person so sudden acceleration is the "overweight American's" problem. I've heard that before - from another guy.

Survival of the fittest. I have heard that before too. Interesting choice of words. You talk like this often? We should all fight and the fittest member of the population will survive. The lesser people die off?

Which country are you from again?

 

OK, now I'm officially pissed off. There was absolutely nothing in any of my posts that was racist. Please post this alleged "racist" comment of mine? If you're going to SLANDER someone, then put up some facts. I'll wait to see what you got. To the contrary, you're the one who brought race into this as soon as you inferred that "homogenmity" might be a reason why there might be a difference between European and US driver skills. You brought this into the conversation, I didn't. So lets hear YOUR reasoning why homogeneity is important to driving skills? I'm waiting. This should be rich. MY position has always been - for the difference - is because of the types of roads/conditions most Europeans face every day. It's a LEARNED skill, and has ZERO to do with "race", "homogeneity" or "culture".

Can you read? I never said, "the rest of the world". I said most, if not all of Europe (which, by the way has a bigger population than the US). I had to clarify because of the references to Inda and China. One can not compare counties where most of the population has only been driving for a few years, to the US, where most of the adult poultation has been driving for decades and decades. Simple concept.

Ah, I see "selective reading" is your expertise. As stated several posts above - if one is to make comparisons, one can not make comparisons to counties where most of the people still don't drive, and the few that do, just learned this decade. Travel more, and you might have an appreciation for coutries like Inda and China, where few still can drive. Why would any comparisons be made to a population where most either don't drive, or are just now learning to drive?

Please try to focus on what we are talking about. Europenas that may have cut YOU off while waiting in line in Disneyworld...has exactly what (??) relevance with Europeans having (or not having) better driving skills? What?? Please explain your logic, because it boglles the mind. LOL What you just presented falls into the heading off (possibly) Europeans having boorish behavior. Is this the best example/evidence you have? Yikes, I'm speechless.

What do you mean by "My culture"?? What "culture" would that be? Yet another racist remark by you.

 

I was talking about Asian Countries, African Countries and South American Countries. All of Asia did not learn to drive in the last decade. What about South Korea and Japan?

And African countries. Surely you jest. What about South Africa?

And South America? I didn't know they drove only in the last 10 years.

So only Europe. Specifically a few countries in the North of Europe, is worthy of comparison to the US. OK. I see. I see what you are getting at clearly.

Please enlighten us about your "survival of the fittest" statement. That's a very interesting philosophy. I want to learn some more of what you are thinking. The fit survive - that much I get. What should we do about the lesser people. What is the solution? Please let us all know what you mean.

 

opcorn:

 

Sorry. Signing off. It was fun interacting and seeing how people really think but I think I know the answer anyway.

 

I make it a point of honor not to contribute to threads once someone has pushed the racism button. But I do want to point out that foot length and width have little to do with being fat. There are plenty of thin people with long or wide feet. So Audi was off-base in trying (in classic manufacturer's fashion) to blame the victims. We all should be happy that Toyota has the sense not to take this approach.

 

Have not been to either country, so no experience to comment about. But I do know this - both Japan and Korea were decimated by war. Both counties/economies did not begin to truely emerge until the late 60's or early 70's. At what point the average Korean or Japanese consumer was able to buy a car, I do not know. But I suspect it was still decades after most Americans had been driving. But that aside, I have no idea how good/bad drivers in thes two counties are? I've been to most European counties, and I know they are - on average - very good/knowledgable drivers. I've been to both India and China, and drivers there - well, not so good at this stage in their driving development. Oh, and both of these countries are VERY "homogenious", to quote you. So homogeneity has nothing to do with anything.

Surely I jest? Wth? Jest about what? Are you implying that Africans have been driving for as long as those in the US...in similar percentages to the overall population? Is that what you are saying? LOL. You might find this link interesting: http://www.drivers.com/article/409/

For many, they still can't afford to drive. I'm not talking about a small percentage of rich/privaledged city dwellers in any of these emerging counties. I'm talking about the vast majority of average, common folk. As an example, what percentage of the population in Chile, Argentina, Bolivia, Paraguy, etc do you think drive...and for how long have they been driving? Do you think it rivals the numbers here in the US. Not even close.

Not that I equate driving skills (or the lack thereof) with car injuries, BUT, here are some automobile injury numbers from a 1998 Injury & Fatality Statistics report - broken dowm by regions:

Africa - 6,116,559
America's - 4,410,736
China - 5,384,909
E. Europe - 2,533,771
(the rest of) Europe - 3,213,104
India - 7,203,864
SE Asia - 3,997,631
Western Pacific - 1,432,539

Since you keep saying a few Nnorthern european countries", I guess I need to spell this out for you. Try the following as just a few: Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Netherlands, England, germany, Switz, Austria, France, etc...Eastern Europeans, after they were released from the grips of Communism, are just now beginning to emerge as an economic force with enough buying power to own vehicles in numbers.

When you retract your slander, and explain your own racist position that the differenece in driving skills could be related to "homogeneity". . I really want to hear this one. LOL.

I'm still waiting for you to post the "racist" statement you allege I made. Sorry, but you are the one who introduced race into the discussion, not me. i siad it's always been about the driving conditions (roads, congestion, etc) that most Europeans live with on a daily basis that has made many, better at driving. It might also be that most Europeans drive smaller cars than most Americans. It's a given fact that a typical sedan/sub-compact is more nimble and maneuverable than your typical large truck, SUV and mini-van.

I really think you need to re-examine your own position. Anybody that gets soooo worked up, as you have, about some Europeans cutting in line at a ride at DisneyWorld has some big, big issues to work out. Not that any of that has relevance to the driving skills of Europeans vs Americans. But really, get some help.

 

FOrget it

 

Several points to be made.

First point - There are no recalls on the Prius that I am aware of. If you know of any, please link to the recall, as I would (honestly) like to know. Not trying to be difficult here, but there seems to be a lot of hysteria and people trying to link what's going on with other Toyota products, to the G3 Prius. I'm just trying to separate things out. They may be related, and they may not? I honestly do not believe they are...but we'll see.

Second point - I've briefly experienced this phenomena twice in 7K miles, and yes, it does happen over certain types of bumps, and when the regenerative braking is in affect (ie light braking). However, in my experience, there was NO sensation of acceleration. What it felt like was a temporary (fractions of a second) "lack of braking". If my momentum is slowing, and then suddenly, the force being excerted to slow my momentum is temporarily reduced, or removed entirely...then that could easily be interpreted as a feeling of acceleration. As some have suggested, if you press harder on the brake peddle, there is no issue...braking is firm.

Third point - Last time I checked, the NHTSA was only tabulating concerns/complaints. As far as I know, it hasn't (and maybe never will?) reach critical mass that it goes to a formal investigation. I guess they are still trying to sort out if this is more a perception that people have that are fairly new to cars with regenerative braking, or whether the brakes are, albeit, for sub-second periods, failing to do their job? Don't know?

Fourth point - Several G2 owners (on this web site) have said they have experienced this phenomena. So it's been around a while, ie, NOT new to the G3. That being said, did the NHTSA look into this issue prior to the G3? If so, what were the findings?

 

Worth posting here. From a poster identifying himself as
"ToyotaFleetManager":

****************************

"This is what I know at the moment. NOT all Toyotas are effected and NOT all domestic. The problem is with vehicles built in North America that have CTS accelerator pedals. Vehicles built in North America and globally with DENSO accelerator pedals ARE NOT affected.

CTS supplies components to several auto makers including Detroit.

The action by Toyota is voluntary and not ordered by the government.
There is a fix that is awaiting approval by the NTSB. As soon as it is approved then Toyota can start retrofitting the components.

Dealers currrently are going over their inventory to identify which vehicles produced in North America has a CTS pedal (which WILL NOT be sold) and which ones have the Denso pedal (which can be sold).

No Hybrids are affected by this.

:rockon:

 

Pretty chicken-sh.t to say someone's comments are "racist", and then walk, no, run away when asked to quote what comments were "racist". Says volumes about your character.

Still waiting for the proof that you can't provide. But no surprise, because everything you've said to this point is factless, made up stuff spewing out of your little mind. Pretty classic stuff I see from internet wind-bags, such as yourslef. A lot of hot air, but no substance to be found - anywhere.