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What Toyota needs to do to win back customer confidence

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by PrBuddy, Feb 8, 2010.

  1. PrBuddy

    PrBuddy Member

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    It seems that there a pattern of dismissing customer reports of recurring, but intermittently occurring flaws in the auto industry, be it braking problems or sudden acceleration issues.

    What Toyota NOW needs to do is the tell their customers that such reports will be taken seriously. While there potentially are drivers that are imagining things, I wouldn't think customers that are otherwise happy with their cars would complain about potentially serious incidents just to gain attention. That is, there probably is some truth behind most of such reports. It seems that Toyota (dealers) have been systematically dismissing such reports to date, if a test drive fails to reproduce the reported issue.

    How such issues are dealt with in other fields? If you go to your doctor and complain about intermittent heart pace problems, you can be equipped with a heart rate monitor/recorder to wear during your daily activities. Similarly, I believe it to be trivial for Toyota to implement a intermittent fault monitoring protocol, if they indeed want to learn the reality behind the customer reports of intermittent issues.

    Such a protocol could go like this:

    1. If customer complaint cannot be reproduced during a test drive, and the on board diagnostics have not recorded any related failure codes, the car is equipped with an additional data logger (with X GB of flash, which is cheap nowadays), which is also equipped with a GPS unit for an independent source of time, speed, acceleration, location etc. data.

    2. The recorder records absolutely every sensor data, internal state variables etc. Some focus could be programmed to towards the systems relating to customer's complaint if needed, but if space and the speed of the internal buses allow, everything should be recorded.

    3. Customer is instructed to bring the vehicle back to service within X hours of the next time the incident happens.

    4. Customer is presented with a questionnaire asking for the approximate time, location, duration, and other conditions of the incident. These can be verified against the collected data, and used to help the search of the incident related data from the gigabytes of data collected.

    5. Dealer uploads the logged data to Toyota for analysis. Toyota needs to implement integrity and trust whereby customers can trust that if something is found, it is being taken care of. Absolutely no lying to your customers!

    6. If the recurring event cannot be fixed, the existing lemon law applies. At the minimum Toyota needs to offer to trade the problem vehicle towards a same model for a fair market price.

    7. If there is a dispute, the collected data should be accepted as evidence in court.

    I understand that the data collected by such a logger would contain delicate proprietary information, but that much more incentive for Toyota to resolve customer complaints.

    So far it seems that Toyota has wanted to turn a blind eye to customer complaints. If this does not change, the customer confidence will not come back. The message needs to be that Toyota builds high quality cars, and if anything slips through the quality control, it is being taken care of.

    I believe that implementing a kind of diagnostic protocol outlined above could be an important step in bringing the customer confidence back. Buying a car should not be a "hidden lemon lottery"!

    I have experienced incompetently managed diagnostics with intermittent issues with a Dodge and a VW in the past. If Toyota makes use of this painful episode, they might be able to stand above the competition in customer care in this area. It might hurt the profits a bit, but without trusting customers the profits will not come either.

    IF Toyota fails to make use the opportunity this situation presents, a protocol like this could and should be mandated by the NHTSA. But I believe it would be better for Toyota to do this voluntarily.

    While a new member, I do own a 2010 Prius with the "braking issue" (reported to the NHTSA), as well as the bad FM reception, and creaking center console. Wife's 2010 Rav4 has NO issues, and is made in Japan, so is not under a recall either.
     
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  2. Rhino

    Rhino New Member

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    And to prevent user abuse, the wheels and tires should have digital sensors and trackers. This is to prevent the driver from swapping to worn out tires, or only putting good tires on one side and bad tires on another side to create a problem. Also, any deviation from recommended pressure is logged and admissible at court. Don't even try to pump it to 42/40.

    Finally, a camera is installed to monitor the roadway to prevent other abuse, like smearing grease on the road.

    Additional sensors should be installed to make sure the rated load capacity of the car is not exceeded because it is beyond the performance envelop.

    This will be compared to a database of speed limits to ensure that the safe driving speed is not exceeded.

    All maintenance logs and receipts would be admissible to the court as evidence. Maintenance can be performed only by certified Toyota techs. After all, the manufacturer cannot be responsible if the car was not maintained properly. If scheduled maintenance is delayed, the car should stop working because it is obviously not designed to work that way. Any use of aftermarket mats, fluids, oils, seat covers, GPS and wheels should void the warranty because we all know how much damage mats and other parts can cause.

    Any speeding logged by the monitoring GPS should be reported to the authorities immediately and admissible at court as evidence. Tailgating, use of lane assist, and activation of the precollision system should be reported to the court too.

    The bumpers should have sensors. If they are bumped, it should change color to indicate operator error. These errors must be logged and the car must be taken to the dealer to be inspected immediately for visible and non-visible damage.

    Finally, the phone logs and emails of the user should be collected to ensure that the driver is not distracted. Users who did not buy a car speakerphone should not be allowed to drive and talk. Any texting should also void the warranty.
     
  3. RoyThePriusGuy

    RoyThePriusGuy New Member

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    no offense guys, but....

    we should have a limit of 250 characters for postings. I may just be in a sour mood today - Mondayitis - but yikes.... novellas.
    ------------------------

    I AM sorry guys; for readers that feel they may be too long...just skip and don't read....
    ---- just crabby today I guess (and I'm not even a Colts fan).
     
  4. Rhino

    Rhino New Member

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    My attempt at humor fails. I see your point but don't you think Toyota can be ten times more profitable if they simply, at very low cost, . . . [edited to reduce length].
     
  5. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Sorry. Your post exceeded the limit and was automatically truncated.

    Tom
     
  6. Harold Bien

    Harold Bien Member

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    I think this is a great idea, and will likely be something coming down the road in the future along with some sort of dynamic "on-line" firmware updates not unlike the update systems now seen in operating systems. Rest assured, however, that such a monitoring system probably already exists (albeit without the GPS location data) in some sort of "black box" recording device within the car which is probably encrypted and can be sent back to Toyota for further analysis.
     
  7. a1a1a1

    a1a1a1 Member

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    Sheesh! If they cared enough to even do a test drive ...
     
  8. Tech_Guy

    Tech_Guy Class Clown

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    Hey Rhino, I think that you are on to something here!!! This is almost like the FAA requirements for airplanes (even small ones like mine) To add to your proposal, we need:

    Manufacturing dates and codes clearly listed on all parts. No aftermarket parts without government certification.

    We also need log books with detailed entries indicating who, and when maintenance was done.

    Vehicle operators/owners need to log ALL mileage and trips in a book or computer log.

    Synopsis of driving information has to be submitted to insurance companies on an annual basis.

    Everybody that operates a vehicle must have a driving test at least every 2 years (shorter periods for commercial operators) AND

    Everybody that operates a vehicle must have complete physical every 2 years.

    To manage all of this we need a new Big government department - FAA (Federal Automobile Administration).

    Keith :)

    P.S. After all that, I think that there will be fewer people on the road and the least expensive automobile will be > $ 50,000.
     
  9. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    That's every 5 years for us young-ins under 40.

    In all seriousness, I've echoed the same sentiments in other forums. I'm not quite so sure the data logger needs to be completely tamper-proof - there could be ways to implement some sort of device signature to deter tampering. But, in the end, the more we over-engineer the data collection, the return on investment becomes smaller. Additionally, putting a ton of fail safes into play goes right back to saying "we don't trust the customer". There comes a point when the customer isn't making this up, and the data is gathered to support or refute it in the first place. A vast majority of the customers (at least, the honest ones) wouldn't even consider tampering with it.
     
  10. Rhino

    Rhino New Member

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    The OP wanted to invoke the "lemon law" and get the manufacturer to buy back a car based on black box data. I was merely saying no manufacturer will agree to this without some assurance of data integrity. The whole thing will drive up the price of cars.

    The incentive to tamper is proportional to the reward. Getting a new car or a buyback is quite a reward. I would try it legitimately by running over the same manhole to reproduce an effect. It's like a lottery, run over manhole, get new car. The expected payoff exceeds that of the lottery. And you don't have to lie even.
     
  11. mad-dog-one

    mad-dog-one Prius Enthusiast

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    Toyota, and other automobile manufacturers, should treat their customers as early warning sentinels for previously undocumented problems. This will, undoubtedly, produce some false alarms, but I believe that it will enhance the identification of hidden problems that are difficult to detect. The numbers point to the answer. A couple of hundred thousand loyal owners that drive their Toyotas in a variety of circumstances should unmask quirks that are never encountered in a factory or in dealership garages. Most customers are inclined to be loyal advocates for products that they purchase and it seems unwise for Toyota to ignore the insights and loyalty that their customers have for their rides
     
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