Anybody feel little kicks, with the ICE running?

There are a couple threads over in the KB forum. They mention the same shutter at stop and describe several reasons. Basically it appears to be "normal".

See for your self the various reasons. Purposeful draining of excess electricity from the battery, clearing fuel before IC shutdown, etc...

http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=11350&hl=

http://priuschat.com/forums/kb.php?mode=article&k=14

 

Yikes! Now I know this isn't YOUR suggestion, but it still scares me to see in print. The Prius battery never does and never CAN have "excess electricity" to drain. That battery never gets anywhere near 100% SOC, so even when it shows super-duper double green bar full, it is just kinda full-ish, and it would be seriously foolish to throw out electrons just for fun.

OK... just had to get that aff my chest. Now I can sleep eaiser.

 

I had this same thing during the first few miles of ownership. Haven't felt it again since putting 400 miles on it though. ???

 

"I'm in mid-missouri, usa and the high temp two days ago was about 22F, today it was 55+. That's missouri for you. "

Well, SD (that's South Dakota, not San Diego!) has those temp changes too.

Last week, had a low of -18 F one AM. 2 days later, daytime temps were 50 +.

Anyway at the below 0 F temps, the ICE shudders, misfires, spins when ya think it shouldn't, stays running to keep itself and you warm, etc. It IS a different feeling car! As it warms up (engine temps as well as daytime outside temps) the smoothness comes back, at least for me.

Much of what I've read from other experts: The extra spinning/lurching/misfiring are the bleeding off the excess juice from the battery by spinning the engine (the Prius protects the battery from both undercharging and overcharging) or clearing the intake of fuel vapors (gots to keep the emissions at partial zero!), or even to set the engine into a better position for restart. I say until you notice 30 MPG on the really nice days OR reduced performance 0-60 MPH OR an idiot light/dash warning, you're fine.

That being said, there's also an added bonus of the engine always on (yes, the lower MPG sucks...), a big green battery, so after the engine is up to temp, EV mode is easy to achieve. 'Course, it may take 20 minutes to get the engine up to temp when it's -18 F outside.

I've had my car for just under 2 years and it still does the "weird" things that everyone describes here. It's just not weird to me anymore. Still operates the same, same performance (just a bit slower when below zero), same MPGs for the same commute...sheesh, I'm in a rut with such a 'dull', efficient, weird car.

still love to tell passengers at stop lights...damn, stalled it again. It never gets old, really.

 

I have the same problem. Engine shuts down rough, usually when cold. I only have 2000 miles on it.

Rich

 

I would love to be where you are and put a CAN-Gage on your car (not available yet) and mine and compare the two. I would guess that the shutter is the same as the rest of us has experienced. Either mine is getting better or I am getting adapted to it. Either way it is what happens as the ICE shuts down. This is a very complex and different car the old rules do not apply and what you know from experience does not apply to the Prius or the other HSD cars. All of us have a lot to learn!

 

I have 1100 miles on mine and I still have this experience with the ICE, and by this experience I mean all those being described. I've never had a misfire/check engine light though, but I have had some pretty definite and prolonged shudders of the ICE as if a spark plug wire had come loose.

I talked to the local dealer's Prius tech at about 300 miles and he said it was normal with this car, and described it himself as feeling "as if a spark plug wire had come loose". I still am not use to it and don't care for it at all. But I suspect he is right, the shudder I am feeling (in the ICE, not my shudder) is probably normal. I may take it to the other dealer in town and ask his opinion. If nothing else, I'll figure out which guy I can work with the easiest.

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I've had my Prius do this at stoplights, too. And I believe that it's linked to what mode the climate control system is in, specifically if it's in defrost mode. I'd get the constant engine on/off cycling. As soon as I took it out of defrost mode, the engine shudder stopped. Put it back in defrost, and it starts up again. Normally I have my climate control set to auto and just adjust temp up/down as appropiate for conditions. I tend to prefer having some coolish air on my face while driving, and will adjust the temp so that I get that, regardless of outside air temp, unless it's really cold out. I only put it into defrost mode (via the steering wheel button) when conditions warrant it (usually rainy weather, it doesn't get that cold here in the Bay Area all that often).

 

I think I know what you're describing. It happens in my prius, even after 16k mi. I always thought it was normal, as it happens on most other cars without a true clutch.
I do mean where the engine is never fully decoupled from the wheels.

Just so that we have a frame of reference:

DO THIS IN A SAFE ENVIRONMENT!
Test subject:
A 'normal' car with with an automatic transmission and air conditioner.
Experiment conditions:
1) Engine is on and idling.
2) Transmission is in drive.
3) Parking brake is off.
4) Foot is on brakes (just enought to make sure you're not moving!)

Experiment:
Cycle the air conditioner on and off.
As you do this, you should feel some sort of light 'grabbing' sensation as the A/C compressor/Mag clutch draws energy from the ICE (I'm glad I don't have one of these in my car anymore!!)

Does it feel like that?

 

I was going to ask about the ICE kick in smoothness for my less than 2 wks old 08 Prius. I guess your post kinda answered my question. Because I recall I don't feel a thing when I test driven the dealer 08 Prius (which has 3000+km)

I hope that's the only reason I can feel the ICE kicks in and shut down....

 

so if the screen shows that the ICE is off at a stop and I still feel it bumping in or shuttering what's the problem.
This only happens at stops within the first 10 min.

 

The MFD display does not show that the ICE is on or off..
It only shows if the ICE is charging the batteries, or powering the wheels for drive.
On warmup the ICE does run without showing on the MFD...

I hope this is rectified in the new Prius.. maybe the icon for the engine will light up when it running and go "green" when it's off ?

 

I definitely get these kicks during warm up on cold days. It happens when I'm stopped at a light and the ICE is running. It does not happen warming up in the driveway. It does not happen while driving. Once it is warmed up, the ICE shuts down at a stop so no longer can happen.

I have asked the dealer to look at it twice. They've checked for error codes and found none. My '07 Prius has 22,000 miles on it and has done this under the conditions mentioned above from the beginning.

I'm trying to think of a reliable way for the dealer to reproduce this. I'm going to suggest starting it cold then drive around the block then stop and idle with the car in gear.

Sounds like this is a problem others are experiencing and probably nothing the dealer can do about it anyways.

 

So, does anyone know exactly what is going on with the engine during this "shudder," either during ICE shutdown or during idle? My 07 has 27K miles and it still does this. I do notice it more when it is colder but not all the time. I doubt there is something wrong but I still wonder what's going on with the little bugger when this happens. I know we have at least a couple of Prius Techs here, I believe Galaxee's husband is one, yes?

 

The engine runs to burn up residual hydrocarbons and to leave itself in the optimal position for the next start. Why it can't do that smoothly I don't know, but from five years of testimony it appears to be completely normal.

 

He used to be. They still have their tech skills and some inside knowledge, like Toyota Service Bulletins.

I read a review about one of Ford's hybrids I think, and they specifically mentioned the initial shutdown shudder was less noticeable than in the Prius. That would imply it could be improved.

I also notice a surge about a minute after starting up on colder days. Looking at it on the scangauge, this corresponds to an increase in engine load from about 60% to 90% before dropping back to normal 80% (more or less). I guess this is when the engine gets warm enough to run at normal load, but it is noticeable on my car.

 

If anyone finds out what causes this I would live to hear what you find. My 2009 does this exactly as described in the reply's above. Sometimes the car shudders bad enough while in park the car moves much like a car would while starting a manual transmission while not depressing the clutch. I had a 2006 prius that I put 65,000 miles on and never noticed this problem.

I just took the 09 in to a dealer and the diagnosis was water in the gas. They verified this because the diagnostic screen showed very slight miss-fires on all cylinders, not bad enough to show error codes. The problem is... This has been going on for the last 9,000 of the 20,000 I already have on the car.

I have no idea,I am lost.