LA Times: Toyota's Fix is a Bust...

Patrick,

What would be a possible explanation as to why the the number of Toyota complaints are so much higher in the US versus market share than Japan, or other countries for that matter?

Dwight

 

Here in Europe it also occurs now and then that an, usually older, driver causes havoc by pushing the gaspedal instead of the brake. He/she will then simply return his driver's licence and not start claiming/complaining (?).
I think what you see here and now is the american claim culture in full swing.

 

Let me guess, he nvested in GM.

 

That happens here too. In California, if you are over 65 and get in an accident, you have to pass a complete drivers license examination (written test + visual acuity test + on-the-road driving test) if you want to continue driving. There are numerous examples where Grandma and/or Grandpa were turned in to the DMV by their children because Grandma/Grandpa were a hazard and wouldn't admit it.

As far as the 'american claim culture' [sic], maybe we are more concerned about safety than you are?

 

How about our highly litigious society which is rampant with people trying to make a quick buck at the expense of a corporation with deep pockets?

 

How about there is a reporting mechanism here (NHTSA) that doesn't exist elsewhere? There are numerous examples of consumer protection that are available in the U.S. that are not in existence elsewhere. One that I am amazed that doesn't exist elsewhere is the Lemon Law. In Canada, if your car is defective, you are sh*t out of luck beyond the manufacturer's warranty. In the U.S., the general rule is 4 failed repair attempts and it is time for the manufacturer to either put you in another car of similar specification or buy the defective car back.

 

This confirms my suspicion. The Chicago region is significantly smaller than ours here in the MidAtlantic which is significantly smaller than the West Coast markets.

The total for the nation still holds. Sales were down 9% for the month. The Midwest seems to have borne the brunt of the shortfall. I'm looking to see who has the regional numbers here as a comparison.

[EDIT: Update]

Prior post for the Chicago region.

No 16 in our region sold more last month than No 1 in Chicago.
No 15 in our region is our 'smaller' store which just missed outselling No 1 in the Chicago region, YTD.

The Chicago region appears to be significantly smaller in volume than the MidAtlantic region.

 

How do we know that? It may be that all 134 reports will be dismissed as operator error, regardless of the manufacturer. All we can conclusively say is that runaway reports for Toyota cars occur at about the same rate as runaway reports for other cars. There is no way to infer validity or cause from the given information.

Tom

 

Patrick,

No, after reading some of the complaints on this forum, I may have to agree with you

I just wanted to see if you had any other explanation because it is really hard to believe that the US actually has that many more "unintended acceleration" events than the rest of the world.

Whether it is our multi-million dollar legal awards or the US being more safety conscious , it is very hard to explain.

Dwight

 

No, you don't understand me. I am still not convinced there is any *real* issue. I was just saying that if there was a problem, every auto maker would have it. Therefore, because there seems to be roughly equal share of "unintended acceleration" among various car makers in Japan, I am even more convinced that there is no issue at all.

On the other hand, I am not dismissing anything, nor am I calling anybody a liar. I am just personally not convinced that there is any real issue, that's all. I am entitled to have an opinion, as much as anybody else.

Please don't take me wrong - I would welcome any serious and sound technical investigation into the problem - it would be only to the benefit of all of us, and it would make our cars even safer. The only thing I am disgusted of is current witch-hunting, yelling and screaming without any convincing evidence. That's all.

 

This is very interesting, Patrick. It is clearly contradictory to the statement I found here:

IEEE Spectrum: $1 Million Prize For Anyone To Prove Cause of Toyota's Runaway Cars

which says:

...The US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) Administrator David Strickland in response to criticism of its actions in regard to the recall, said that the agency hadn't seen any noticeable up-tick in unintended acceleration in Toyota vehicles. Quoting from a story in The Detroit News, he said that, "If you look at it on a per capita basis ... their actual comparison to the rest of the fleet was actually unremarkable.... They had the same percentage of sudden acceleration issues as other manufacturers. They just had more of them because they have more cars."

Now tell me where the truth is?

 

This is far more accurate. In addition Toyota has been the leader in implementing DBW technology across the board. It has far more DBW vehicles on the roads than any of the other makers. It began earlier and it converted more models sooner.

It's pretty much the norm now for every auto maker to use DBW across the board but many are just beginning to reach 'critical mass'.

Also be being the first Toyota took a risk. It was a selling point, it's more efficient for repairs and it costs less during fabrication. However being the pioneer means being out on the edge of civilization where all the unknown risks are located. One of the risks is coming to play right now, being first and being the biggest means being the biggest target too.

 

Litigation / Negligence Capitol of the World . . . . .

Coincidence?


.

 

Until there is a factual basis to whatever causal theory is being advocated, anything is possible. My point was that when the news broke, there was almost a reflexive dismissal of the events as being due to operator error. Recently causes other than operator error are at least being considered as being within the possible solution set.

Toyota is not helping their case by keeping mum on the content of the black boxes in the affected cars. The black boxes are supposed to track information on brake pedal actuation and throttle position. Why is Toyota not releasing the data from the boxes in the cars that were involved in crashes? Curious minds want to know.

 

Is it found in the Owner's Manual?

Bob Wilson

 

Is what found in the Owners Manual? As in what are you asking about? If you are referring to the black boxes, there is some bland statement about data recorders in the Owners Manual. Toyota themselves have acknowledged that the black boxes track brake actuation and throttle position, so I don't know what your question is related to.

 

That is like when as a kid I was caught with my hand in the cookie jar, and my mother asked me what I was doing with my hand in the cookie jar. My response - Nothing.... Yeah, right.