Why the "Out of Control" Prius Driver Is Full of It

Well, enough with bashing us Americans. One explanation for that is that cars in US must be sold cheap (Well, thanks to our free-market system, we Americans are proud to be cheap -- we like cheap gas, cheap cars, cheap electronics, cheap Chinese products, cheap everything), therefore manufacturers like Toyota use inferior parts for their cars sold in US. The malfunctions mainly happen in US- or Canada-built models, not in Japanese-built models like Priuses, which use top-quality 100% Made in Japan parts.

The argument for the electronics bug is that when there is a defective accelerator sensor, a scenario that happens 1 in 100,000 or so, the Toyota-specific design of the two independent circuits may in some cases fail to produce an error code, a very rare situation. This is what the Illinois Professor discovered and he claims to be the cause. In order for this to happen, two things are needed: A slightly less quality accelerator sensor, built outside Japan, which may rarely fail and (2) an accompanying anomaly in the circuit, which may in some cases happen.

 

I've listened to the 911 tape. This is apparently a hoax. The guy kept talking and talking but when he started receiving repeated instructions to put the transmission in neutral, he wouldn't say a word and he played deaf! It's a shame! The woman might have asked him to put it to neutral 20 times. These kind of hoaxes end up contamitating the true investigation.

 

He said that he couldn't move the pedal. The police department said that it could not have been floor mats. We do not know if the pedal was up, down, or in the middle from the reports I read. Someone may know.

All he was saying was the car jumped (accelerated) and continued to do so with his foot off of it. He also stated that the throttle remained open even after the application of brakes, and police confirmed seeing brake lights. If its a hoax, the car should show the evidence, so he would also do so knowing he would get caught. I hope we see information from the investigation soon, so all the bozos making up conspiracies against toyota can shut up (I know they won't, they will find anouther conspiracy). Hey, if it is a hoax, I'll admit I'm wrong.

 

seems like a hoax. Give this guy a speeding ticket and a talking on his cell phone while driving ticket!

 

As a little test.. and I didn't care if I broke something because my wife's life is at stake here...

I took her '08 Prius out on the road tonight.. I got to 50mph, kept my foot on the gas and I hit the Park button . The transmission instantly went into Neutral and the engine raced but it was no longer engaged with the transmission and so the brakes simply stopped the car normally.

You CANNOT Power off the car while it is moving... I tried that too and when you apply the brake and hit the power button.. NOTHING happens..

BUT The quick fix to a runaway is to simply hit the Park button.

Note I also had a Prius and sold it last week for a Honda CRV. I got killed on the trade.. an '08 Prius base model with 13k miles... 13 thousand dollars. Ouch!
td

 

Car will not power off... I tried it.... I hit the park button at 50mph. It went right into neutral. Then with foot on brake I hit power... and it did not turn off while moving. BUT it was in neutral.

 

OK, I was gonna keep an open mind, but I'm calling this one a hoax...

1) Just listened to the 911 mp3. Compare it with the Lexus one that where the CHP officer died. This one lacked life-or-death urgency.

2) Check out this image:

I wanna see a close-up of the front brake disc... I think that if you'd fully applied your brakes for 30 miles while going 90 mph, the whole front brake system would have melted -- pads, caliper, and all.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_runaway_prius

This other article said the pedal stuck. His statement said he did not put it in neutral, or hold the start button for 3 seconds until the cops had talked to him and he had slowed to 55 on an uphill with full braking and emergency brake engaged. If we believe the report, then he applied the brakes (which according to others should have turned off the throttle). While he was braking he said the engine revved, which would confirm that no brake overide was working. It is possible that he did not brake hard enough and a stuck pedal accelerated the car when he let off. But that would still leave two things happening, stuck pedal and no brake override. There are 2 government experts on the scene and 3 toyota technicians either there or on the way. Toyota should be able to determine a hoax quickly if one happened (erd should show that the throttle went to 0 then back up, brakes override of throttle happened, etc).

 

In a non-hybrid, the rotors would show glazing, there could also be heat stress cracks and possibly warping. Net, net, there would be signs of the attempt to slow the car. With the hybrid, for part of the time, the regen braking would be activated, which would show very little impact on the rotors/drums unless the operator was applying enough pressure to override the regen function. Once the traction battery pack was fully charged, then regen cuts out and hydraulic braking starts. Depending on how hard the brakes were applied, there could be heat stress signs on the rotors. It also depends on when the brakes were applied. Right away, or later?

 

I think you'd get to 8 green bars within the first mile or two, then it's all hydraulic.

In any event... 30 miles... That's San Francisco to Concord, Vallejo, or Palo Alto, or LAX to Anaheim. It's a looooong way to not try neutral once, especially after getting repeatedly told by the 911 operator. Just doesn't pass the smell test.

 

Fear does odd things to people. Ask a paramedic who has responded to car accidents where the victims were conscious after the accident where the car(s) is/are a total loss. The people can be reduced to hysterical incoherent babbling that takes an injected sedative to calm them down. CHP officers see a lot of instances where drivers try to fake situations to avoid being tagged for a moving violation. They are pretty good at catching someone trying to sandbag them.

 

Well, I've messed with/abused my prius quite a bit - it's a salvage 2008 fully loaded and packed with four battery packs. I have a kill switch for the fuel injectors, in case I want to go up to 52mph on battery (or stop any "unintended" acceleration ) I've driven the car while it was being charged (three feet - oops) with a very noisy and unshielded charger. I had a can of beer, I mean Coke, spill on the orange battery voltage monitor cable which made some interesting noises. If I ever overheat a battery, maybe I'll call 911 so I can ignore their advice. "I didn't want to pull the orange safety plug, because I might lose my radio presets"

These cars are tough. They are exceptionally engineered and apparently full of safeguards and failsafes, and a very, very tolerant electrical system. Every time I do something stupid, the Prius forgives me. If any car was going to go haywire, it would be mine. Toyota must still lose money on the Prius, it's just way too packed with awesomeness and aerospace quality engineering for what they charge. I trust the Prius with my and my family's life every day.

My latest Prius moment, getting pulled over by a cop for driving too slow on a Friday night. I didn't want to go out of EV mode and the speed limit was 35mph. Told me to speed it up.

 

At 10A, it takes about an hour for me to charge 4 packs from 200V to 238V. At 100A braking effort, that about 90 seconds for a single pack. (10A/sec x 60min x 60 sec / 4 packs / 100A = 90sec). With a typical Prius setup, the pack wouldn't be at 200V when he started braking - and you get those 8 bars before 238V) I'll have to test this, but I'd guesstimate about a minute of full regen would be about all you get. So yeah, there's your mile or two.

My two cents, this guy is like most people: not that into his car, except as transportation. Under pressure he just wasn't thinking straight. I mean, it's not like Toyota writes you a check, and you are risking your life running a scam at 90mph. He probably should stick to simpler vehicles though, I recommend a 1975 Fiat 124 Spyder. At least when the tie rods fall off (true story), the car just comes to a screeching halt.

 

Has anyone seen some of the transcript of the actual 911 calls here : FOXNews.com - Safety Officials Investigate Runaway Prius Incident in California

At first I thought this guy was genuine but just stupid (for not being able to figure out the obvious, like changing to neutral or using the emergency brake etc) but now I'm really starting to think about the possibility of him looking for money or publicity or both. How could he have the cop on the phone telling him to put it into "N" and he still cant (or wont) do it. This defies belief.

 

Sorry, I haven't had the time to watch these crazy threads about Runaway Prius driver: Brakes were 'almost burned' - Yahoo! Finance also reports

 

If you are talking about the incident down near San Diego that hit yesterday (March 8th) then I think you are missing the point(s). This report indicates that he pretty much wore out a set of brake pads trying to stop the car at speeds up around 90 mph. That's impossible to do if the accelerator cut-off was working and the accelerator was not stuck. The other facts that the driver apparently didn't try to put the car in Neutral or shut the Power button off properly is only important in knowing how to emergency stop the car. What is really important and to the point imho is that the accelerator stuck, the car got up to around 90 mph apparently and the brake system is way under-designed to stop the car at that sort of speed. Fix the "stuck accelerator" signal in the ECU so the Systems work and the brake system design works.

P.S. Obviously if the driver is lying, his Prius brake pads aren't really depleted, the CHP report includes the misinformation/lies and the news media ate it up then we are really in trouble. But I don't think anyone should make any assumptions that that is what has been going on. We should assume that stuck accelerators is real and in that case the Prius brake design is inadequate at high speeds and see what happens next. I for one am not exceeding 55 mph--maybe I'll work on my hypermiling a little? I'm also adding a placard to the dash of my own design reminding me of things to do if the accelertor sticks before I lose it.

 

Actualy no, the shift to neutral at speed is no different than the shift to neutral while stationary, there's nothing asymmetric about it. Yes it's true that the shift to neutral requires the lever to be held for a very short time (no more than one second) while the shift to either "D" or "R" is virtually instantaneous, but operation of all three (D N R) are the same at speed as they are when you're sitting in your garage or at the traffic lights or in a car park or whatever.

Also, if you try to shift the prius to "R" while at speed then it changes almost instantaniously to "N" instead. In short, trying just about anything in that area with the shift stick at speed will get you "N".

I take the point about the "start" button operation being asymmetric and can easily understand someone under duress not getting that one. But remember that going power off with the start button is definitely not the best way to handle this anyway, switching to "n" is by far the best option. Also note that the stick shift is actualy designed to be operated while driving, and is much easier than almost anything else the guy was trying to do.