1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Now For Something that Really Bugs Me

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by GeoDesign, Mar 14, 2010.

  1. GeoDesign

    GeoDesign Who, Where, What, Why ?

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    84
    50
    0
    Location:
    north carolina
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Something that really bugs me is since the NHTSA started keeping records, Ford Motors has recalled over 20 million cars, the highest recall year being 1996 with over 7.6 million units. Thus, while the current recall hype might be news to the US consumer who favors Japanese models over their American counterpart, the news of Toyota’s 5 million units recalled are overshadowed by Ford’s recall history.
    It began back in 1972 when Ford issued a recall for over 4 million cars with faulty seatbelt buckles. With indications that the buckles could release in a crash situation, the auto manufacturer recalled cars from its Ford, Mercury and Lincoln brands – every single one of them made during models years 1970-71.
    The next major car recall from Ford was the 1996 Ford Explorer recall. The malfunction in question gave it the less-than-favorable moniker “Ford Exploder” as the ignition switches were found to be defective and could catch fire, overheat or otherwise malfunction. Nearly 8 million cars were affected and Ford recalled nearly all its cars manufactured between 1988 and 1993. 2000 thru 2003 saw the Ford SUV roll over recalls.
    2005 wasn’t such a great year for Ford in the recall department, either. While we’re at it, we should mention 2009 as well. Both years resulted in a recall of 4.5 million units each for Ford, and were directly related to course control malfunctions. Had the NHTSA combined these incidents into a single report, it would have been the largest recall of all time with an estimated 14 million cars are affected.
    Now this is not just ford alone. Don't get me started on GM whom right at this very moment is recalling 1.1 million cars for faulty power steering. Where is the media frenzy here? Why is there not a goverment crimal investagation here? The only goverment move on GM was to take my tax money and give it to these dumb $%^%$ so they wouldn't go bankrupt.
    The sad part is the millions out there eating this bull *&^#$% against toyota like it were candy.
     
    2 people like this.
  2. GeoDesign

    GeoDesign Who, Where, What, Why ?

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    84
    50
    0
    Location:
    north carolina
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Fear, uncertainty, and doubt
    FUD is generally a strategic attempt to influence public perception by disseminating negative and dubious/false information designed to undermine the credibility of their beliefs. An individual firm, for example, might use FUD to invite unfavorable opinions and speculation about a competitor's product.

    So, what is the truth behind the media frenzy and goverment investagation against Toyota? How do the the american auto companies get a pass?
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2006
    7,028
    1,116
    0
    Location:
    South Jersey
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    This is why one needs to send big bucks to the state's Senators & Congressmen. Do you really expect the Senators from Michigan to support or even suggest scrutiny of the domestic auto industry? The Big 3 whined about the Supercar program & it was gutted.
     
  4. Tech_Guy

    Tech_Guy Class Clown

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    868
    123
    0
    Location:
    Silicon Valley, CA --- Land of Fruits & Nuts
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Times have changed. We use to have a civil government that applied common sense. These days we have a government that blames everybody but themselves for their bad decisions. The public gets more angry with the government. The government points the finger at any large target, usually businesses and passes bad legislation creating a worse problem.

    Our government doesn't solve problems any more. They are the problem.

    Keith
     
  5. mad-dog-one

    mad-dog-one Prius Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    1,181
    420
    0
    Location:
    Whereabouts Unknown
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    ----USA----
    Comparison of the number of cars recalled for different manufacturers does not provide a valid comparison of the probability (risk) of recall because each manufacturer produces different numbers of cars. A valid measure of the risk of recall for manufacturers uses the proportion of cars produced that are recalled (probability of recall), rather than the absolute number of recalled cars. If manufacturer A produces a million cars, with 100,000 that are recalled, (10% recalled) and manufacturer B produces 10 million cars, of which 500,000 are recalled (5% recalled), then manfacturer A has twice the risk of recall compared to manufacturer B. Nevertheless, manufacturer B had 400,000 more cars recalled.
     
  6. 32kcolors

    32kcolors Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2009
    5,683
    952
    124
    Location:
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    It's quite simple really. The government has an ownership in GM and they want to avoid bailing out the american auto companies any further.

    The secretary of transportation would've kept his hole shut if it were an American company recalling the cars and not say "stop driving the vehicles."
     
  7. Wiserone

    Wiserone Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2010
    111
    7
    0
    Location:
    B R O O K L Y N
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    This info should help assuage some of your anger. Ford has not gotten a dime of bail out cash. Ford has IMHO turned around their bad rep and now makes better quality cars. They still will need to do more if they ever intend on earning my money again.
     
  8. georgew

    georgew New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    129
    10
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Had there not been a media frenzy, would we had still have these recalls from Toyota? That is the question I ask myself..
     
  9. 32kcolors

    32kcolors Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2009
    5,683
    952
    124
    Location:
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    I believe the Gen III brake fix would've eventually been released as a TSB if it wasn't for the recall. This is what usually happens when sufficient number of owners make enough noise about a particular issue (e.g. blurry A/C display).
     
  10. ljbad4life

    ljbad4life New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    365
    24
    0
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Maybe There wouldn't be such a frenzy if toyota fixed the issue the first time, instead of issuing the bs floor matt recall. That's the same thing that landed ford in the hot seat over the ford explorer tire exploding fiasco.

    Sorry Toyota fanboys and apologists, it's Toyota inability to acknowledge the issue for years and then offer a "non-fix". Add to the fact that there are toooooo many ex-toyota employees on the NHSTA board and they let the issues slide. That sounds very "GM" of Toyota

    I have really been wondering why people keep saying Ford recieved gov't bailout. They DID NOT! it might be hard to understand, but this american company has turned itself around, while a certain japanese company is heading down the good 'ole GM path.
     
  11. GeoDesign

    GeoDesign Who, Where, What, Why ?

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    84
    50
    0
    Location:
    north carolina
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    OK, I stand corrected. Ford was standing with thier hand out for bail out money but turned it down because they did not like the terms.

    I used Ford as the example to show the number of safety recalls and how they seem to be getting a pass.

    The point being made was that we live in a world where judgement is passed not for the well being of the people, but for the profit of others. There is a reason that the heat is on Toyota and it is this poster's opinion that this attack on Toyota runs much deeper then concern for public safety. If it were truely about the people's well being then Ford would have been on the chopping block years ago.
     
  12. gpt

    gpt Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2010
    17
    5
    0
    Location:
    Athens
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I think 32kcolors gave the answer.
    The dept. of transportation is protecting the government investment on GM, simple as that.
    Altough they should act on the benefit of the driver, and be objective on security issues, they became a way to influence economic values.
    This is a shame and way out of their role as an office, but ecomomy is THE most important issue for all governments.
     
  13. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,525
    4,057
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
     
  14. octavia

    octavia Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    968
    137
    10
    Location:
    Beautiful Oregon
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Clear as day to me, Mr. Toyoda really pissed someone off and they hired a Voodoo lady. The man is wading through some seriously bad Karma or something. There is no way this level and intensity of bad isn't personal.
     
  15. LaMesaGuy

    LaMesaGuy Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2009
    103
    11
    0
    Location:
    La Mesa, CA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Remember the Ford Pinto problems. A lot of people died in a Ford Pinto crash years ago. Ford final acknowledge the problem after many people had died from a Pinto crash. Ford stop making the Pinto, end of problem. They decided that it was too expensive to fix the problem. I knew many people who had own a Ford Pinto and they seems to like the car.
     
  16. mitch672

    mitch672 Technology Geek

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    1,077
    197
    0
    Location:
    Randolph, MA
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    27 people died in total with a car that had a production run of more than 2 million in total. Hardly the "fiery death trap" the media hyped it to be. But Ford was castigated as an "insensitive" company because they decided to just payoff the lawsuits, rather than fix the problem...

    see this article extract below: [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto]Ford Pinto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    "Safety problems and scandal
    The model became a focus of a major scandal when it was alleged that the car's design allowed its fuel tank to be easily damaged in a rear-end collision which sometimes resulted in deadly fires and explosions. Critics argued that the vehicle's lack of a true rear bumper as well as any reinforcing structure between the rear panel and the tank meant that in certain collisions, the tank would be thrust forward into the differential, which had a number of protruding bolts that could puncture the tank. This, and the fact that the doors could potentially jam during an accident (due to poor reinforcement)[citation needed] allegedly made the car less safe than its contemporaries.
    Ford allegedly was aware of this design flaw but refused to pay for a redesign. Instead, it was argued, Ford decided it would be cheaper to pay off possible lawsuits for resulting deaths. Mother Jones magazine obtained the cost-benefit analysis that it said Ford had used to compare the cost of an $11 repair against the monetary value of a human life, in what became known as the Ford Pinto memo.[10][11][12] The characterization of Ford's design decision as gross disregard for human lives in favor of profits led to significant lawsuits. While Ford was acquitted of criminal charges, it lost several million dollars and gained a reputation for manufacturing "the barbecue that seats four."[13]
    The NHTSA put pressure on Ford to recall the Pinto, motivated by public outcry and pressure from groups such as Ralph Nader's Center for Auto Safety. Initially the NHTSA did not feel there was sufficient evidence to demand a recall due to incidents of fire. The 27 deaths attributed to Pinto fires is the same number of deaths attributed to a transmission problem in the Pinto, which resulted in 180 total deaths in all Ford vehicles, and in 1974 the NHTSA ruled that the Pinto had no "recallable" problem.[14]
    Nevertheless, in 1978 Ford initiated a recall providing a dealer installable "safety kit" that installed plastic protective material over the offending sharp objects, negating the risk of tank puncture.[15]
    In 1981, an automobile accident that killed Lilly Gray and badly burned 13-year old Richard Grimshaw resulted in the court case Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Co.,[16] in which the California Court of Appeal for the Fourth Appellate District upheld compensatory damages of $2.5 million and punitive damages of $3.5 million against Ford, partially because Ford had been aware of the design defects before production but had decided against changing the design.
    Due to the alleged engineering, safety, and reliability problems, Time magazine included the Pinto on its list of the fifty worst cars of all time.[12]
    However, a 1991 law review paper by Gary Schwartz[17] claimed the case against the Pinto was less clear-cut than commonly supposed. The number who died in Pinto rear-impact fires, according to Schwartz, was well below the hundreds cited in contemporary news reports and closer to the twenty-seven recorded by a limited National Highway Traffic Safety Administration database. Given the Pinto's production figures (over 2 million built), this was not substantially worse than typical for the time. Schwartz argued that the car was no more fire-prone than other cars of the time, that its fatality rates were lower than comparably sized imported automobiles, and that the supposed "smoking gun" document that plaintiffs claimed showed Ford's callousness in designing the Pinto was actually a document based on National Highway Traffic Safety Administration regulations about the value of a human life rather than a document containing an assessment of Ford's potential tort liability."
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,073
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    What if there isn't anything to fix? It's entirely possible that all this fuss does not have a physical cause. Toyota can't fix what isn't broken.

    There may be a real problem. We can't completely discount that idea, nor can we completely discount the possibility that there is no physical problem.

    Tom
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. hsiaolc

    hsiaolc New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2009
    617
    46
    9
    Location:
    UK
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    We are not talking about WHAT IFs!!!! It was a problem and plenty of us have had the problem. What is your problem? I don't care to waste my life on a car that is made faulty by Toyota. Toyota is just a company and I have no love over any company. I only expect what I paid for because it is just business. I bought their cars because of reliablity and repuation.

    When we had the brake problem which they knew about but when it surficed they wanted to cover it up by saying that there are no faults when the new Prius after 2010 has been updated with the new software for the brakes. Read previous posts please regarding this issue instead of just blantely bluring out nonesense.

    In that regards I don't care what happens to them. They need to get burned to learn their lesson. AS for Ford I really don't care what they do because I won't ever buy their cars so no it doesn't bother me at all.
     
  19. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,073
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    I don't have a problem. I believe that it is you that alleges a problem. I'm still waiting for some solid evidence. Stating that one has had a problem is no proof that it happened.

    Tom
     
  20. PriusSport

    PriusSport senior member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2008
    1,498
    88
    0
    Location:
    SE PA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Fear has always been used by the media to attract an audience, whether selling newspapers or getting ratings. Creating or exaggerating conflict is a part of this.
    Heck, they even do it with the weather these days. Yahoo weather raises a critical weather flag if the wind is blowing more than 10 mph. The possibility of snow is frequently overdone--especially on local TV news.

    In fact, one can't imagine the mass hysteria generated if the media would want to do something with Global Warming. Maybe that's too serious for them to get involved with.

    My suspicion is somebody saw a way to undermine Toyota's reliability reputation--cut their sales, and jumpstart the weakened American car industry. The impetus could have come from Michigan politicians, Auto labor unions, American car lobbyists--and their friends in the media. Any number of these. The initial problems Toyota had could have been real--probably typical of any car company--or they could have been staged. Hard to say.

    To those who don't believe in conspiracy theories, I say look to your local law enforcement. The first thing they look for in any crime is a motive. There is a good reason for everything.