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Sikes accelerator/braking data

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Yossarian, Mar 15, 2010.

  1. Highly ImPriused

    Highly ImPriused Impressive Member

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    I don't think he averaged 90 MPH, just that he reached that speed (or I think I saw up to 94 MPH). The 911 call lasted 23 minutes, which suggests that he averaged right around 60 MPH for this little jaunt. So 250 applications over 23 minutes would be once every 5.5 seconds. But it could have been less frequent depending on how long he was doing this routine before calling 911. I don't think we know the total time period over which the 250 applications occurred.
     
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  2. DeadPhish

    DeadPhish Senior Member

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    One point never mentioned in the report is the speed of the vehicle. Only Sikes the Scammer's 911 call mentions 90 mph. Until the CHP arrived and confirmed that he was going 90-ish mph he could have been doing 70-ish all the time until the end trying to fry the brakes until he got them well-worn.

    I wonder if the CHP officer that finally got him to stop feels like a fool for being drawn into the scam and all that. He did his job but in fact there was no issue. Other CHP officers now....

    'Hey Bud, stop any runaway Prius' today?' :rofl:
     
  3. gohkg

    gohkg New Member

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    i really wonder why some are anti prius/toyota yet still surf this forum...sell their prius and move on...

    anyway hope all these issues can be solved and if its really technical problems, they can be resolved.
     
  4. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Sorry, you misunderstood my post. I said that it wouldn't surprise me if the ECU had a data limit of 250 entries. The data came from a diagnostic section of the ECU, where 250 entries would be plenty to see a pattern for most problems.

    I certainly wasn't saying that cycling between gas and brakes at high speed is normal.

    Tom
     
  5. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    There is scant information on what is recorded for the purposes of "freeze frame" or diagnostic capability, vs actual crash record (Speed, seatbelt use, etc at time of airbag deployment)

    Toyota has always been secretive on what is actually recorded. One consequence of this latest incident is that the attorneys will demand access to what parameters are recorded

    No doubt most of this information will trickle down to us mere mortals
     
  6. Politburo

    Politburo Active Member

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    Did everyone hear the goalposts move upthread?

    Last week, it was "When will Toyota release the data?"

    Now the data isn't good enough. How typical.
     
  7. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Hobbit, I do know that the Prius logs some odd behavior or unusual events. For example, if you shift into D before the car is Ready, it logs it. They do this because many "problems" are actually user error. Someone comes into the shop and says "My Prius doesn't always shift into D." It was a common enough complaint that now the tech can pull the codes and see that the driver was shifting before the car was completely booted.

    At this point I am going to switch to complete speculation. Let me be clear that I don't know the following to be true, nor does it come from any reliable source. I am extrapolating from what we do know, and how I normally engineer microcontroller systems:

    I suspect that unusual events are time-stamped and kept in some sort of a DTC log. There wouldn't be many of them, because only unusual or error conditions would be logged. From the press report, it sounds like this particular ECU can hold 250 entries.

    Further speculating, rapid transitions from acceleration to braking could be considered an unusual event. It could indicate oscillation in the control system. I believe that is why the braking/accelerating cycles were logged.

    Note that this in no way implies a flight data recorder type function, where routine control information is constantly logged. I think, in this case, the driver's erratic control inputs triggered diagnostic logging.

    Tom
     
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  8. Dozzer

    Dozzer Prius Noob

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    shame... it should have a 100% flight data style recorder.. very handy to tap into.
     
  9. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    I'm starting to think they might be part of an Astroturf campaign.

    Tom
     
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  10. carz89

    carz89 I study nuclear science...

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    Very good explanation. Mr. Sikes probably used the brakes so much that the initial regeneration fully charged the battery to the normal limit of 80%. Once that point was reached, the vehicle record all subsequent application of the brake as an abnormal situation. A lot of brake use in itself isn't necessarily a problem (eg-going down a mountain), but coupled with a whole lot of accelerator use might be recognized as a problem by the onboard computer, then perhaps the computer began recording all subsequent brake/accelerator events.
     
  11. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    While I've not seen eye to eye with a1a1a1 or apriusfan's approach/general attitude, I supported their general point that Toyota should be held responsible if they're making a faulty product and that they have made mistakes in not being more forthright in the past. They offered some balance to the early "Sikes is a fraud" commentary.

    But now, with overwhelming evidence suggesting Sikes did lie, that there is nothing at all wrong with his car, and that Toyota and NHTSB have shown solid evidence that the car is in perfect operating order and that sikes is likely lying, and yet they continue to persist in tin-hat implications of fraud on Toyota's part and some conspiracy in conjucting with NHTSB, I feel they've jumped the shark and are approaching troll status.

    Balance to a discussion on a fan site is great and appreciated. But, at some point, when objective evidence is against you it's time to quietly back away, even if you don't feel an outright apology is in order.

    Guys, you're sounding fanatically anti-Toyota without sound evidence to support any of the hatred and accusations you're spewing--coverups? I've agreed all I can that they've made mistakes and handled things poorly in not openly addressing problems and more aggressively researching customer complaints/concerns. But you've pushed things to a level you simply can't substantiate in any way shape or form by suggesting some sort of evil conspiracy and cover-up.
     
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  12. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    If you hold the gas pedal while pressing the brakes, only friction braking is used. Alternately you can shift into and out of N.

    Or, as you suggest, you can charge the HV battery to the high limit and not have to do anything special.

    Tom
     
  13. TheSpoils

    TheSpoils Member

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    Some people here would still argue even if Sikes admitted to fabricating the whole incident.
     
  14. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    The same aliens that built the pyramids have returned and reprogrammed select Toyota ECUs to kill those that know too much. Everyone who reads this is now in danger...
     
  15. tonyrenier

    tonyrenier I grew up, but it's still red!

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    I had a knock sensor failure in a '97 Subaru and the mechanic was able to tell me when, what the engine temp was and what the ambient air pressure was. That was a '97 model. This all occured about 2 weeks prior. Can you imagine what infor today's computers store?
    Tony Renier
     
  16. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    If Toyota can prove that every time Sikes used the brakes the automobile responded by trying to decellerate but he deliberately eased up on the brakes and kept speeds up, then I'd certainly take Sikes to court and sue him for trying to implement fraud and doing deliberate damage to Toyota's reputation.

    On a lighter note, I found it funny that evidently the Corvette Owners Club identified on Sikes jacket is embarrassed that Sikes is a member. Embarrassed that he is claiming he couldn't stop his Prius.
     
  17. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

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    Okay, look, any of you guys with a repair manual [any year] go
    look up "operational history data". I have to go pump out
    someone's basement, but I might be able to put the relevant
    manual sections up for grabs later. In the meantime, y'all will
    probably figure out that brake applications are NOT part of
    that supposed "log".
    .
    _H*
     
  18. Codyroo

    Codyroo Senior Member

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    I recall that the whole "tin foil" hat conspiracy thingy was initially being laid squarely on the shoulders of people who thought the whole incident was a fraud from the outset. The people accusing the neysayers were the ones that were flabbergasted that these same neysayers couldn't accept that their cars and Toyota were somehow guilty of something, and that it HAD to be the driver (driver error, driver ineptitude, driver fraud, etc). Further, the CHP was in on the "evil plot" with this driver. A few posters in this forum were having a heyday with these accusations (taking a few smug prius owners down a notch or two?)

    Now, as more information comes out, it appears (but has not been proven) that this is a case of driver fraud and that the car nor the corporation is at fault. The CHP officer was just doing his job. It appears that these same few posters now feel that Toyota and the NHTSB are involved in a cover-up and are slandering the driver....DESPITE evidence (both physical of the car, and of the character of the individual) that would indicate that the driver is being deceptive.

    Who is wearing the tinfoil hat now?

    The irony is delicious isn't it?
     
  19. TomKahn

    TomKahn Junior Member

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    Toyota said that Sikes switched back and forth between the gas and brake 250 times. That means 5 seconds on the gas followed by 5 seconds on the brake and then 5 seconds on the gas again. This I find credible. He could do this to adjust his speed so he did not crash into the back of another car and by just pressing on the brake hard enough to wear out the fronts and not wear out the rear brakes.

    Most of the braking comes from the front brakes and they are engaged first and will wear out first. If Sikes pressed the brakes hard enough to engage the rear brakes and hard enough for the rear brakes to wear out, Sikes would come to a stop and his chance for his 15 minutes of more fame would be over.)

    Math wise consider 125 gas aplications and 125 brake aplications equaling the 250 recorded events.

    23 minutes * 60 seconds/minute = 1380 seconds. 1380seconds /250 events = 5.5 seconds per event or like I said, 5 seconds on the gas and 5 seconds on the brake.
     
  20. Jolly Paul

    Jolly Paul Member

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    That would only prove that Toyota somehow got Sikes to join in the coverup. Or that Sikes was a Toyota plant setup to discredit real claims of UA.

    Conspiracy theories are fun!