Recall for brakes DID NOT fix the problem

I no longer know what may be "the truth" in this debate, just refuse to "jump on the bandwagon" regards bashing Toyota. I have not owned Toyotas all my life.... felt they were too expensive most times I've considered them. My first Toyota was a Hilux pickup, '75 model. Was an excellent little pickup which I put over a 100k on back in a day when 100k was an exception rather than the rule, and if you made it to that mileage it had cost you plenty in repairs! That little pickup was trouble free! I tried to replace it with another, but didn't feel I could justify the cost, as I found another brand at a "buy".
My next Toyota IS a 2002 Camry which has a 127k on it and only put new front brake pads on it at around 117k, and that was the FIRST repair.
I can only speak from my own experience, but due to that the ONLY car of this technology I would consider is a Prius..... because 10yrs experience in the business of Hybrids, and a trouble free track record for that time, as far as I know.
My Prius has had the recalled "flash" of the brakes done. I could not say definitively that I experienced the "problem" before I had the recall done.
NOW... that having been said, I think I experienced the anomolie today. I missed seeing a pothole as I came to a stop at an intersection today. The "Momentary" event seemed to be there. There was no other cars around, and even if there had been there would have been no "incident", as I hadn't come to the intersection before applying the brakes! And the "event" was there and gone, before I or my passenger even hardly realized it. Secondly I'm sure we have as bad a road surfaces here as anyone else has, but I am always, (albeit except for today), reading the road surfaces as I drive and I "dodge" ALL rough surfaces that I possibly can......especially when your running 40psi in the tires! I don't enjoy jarring my "eye teeth", or putting my car through that. I actually will reroute myself due to really bad roads.
So my feeling......??? I think that Toyota is being "tarred and feathered", and if the "big 3", their friends, (in high places, ie: Govnmt.), + any consumers that the aforementioned can influence, have any way about it they will make it as difficult as possible for Toyota to conduct business!
I have every empathy for any owner who has any real problem from this.
BUT: (1) I've made a sizable investment in this car,which doesn't lend me to
critisize.
(2) My experience of the "possible" problem has been NO PROBLEM....

 

I went to see Leith Toyota Service today, and I had the dealer's service shop foreman ride in the Prius (he looked like Bill Nye, the Science Guy -- even had on a blue lab coat...). I duplicated the symptoms a couple of times, and we found out they coincided with the engine shutoff to battery power. Bottom line: it is an anomaly and not a problem with the brakes. Apparently, the vibrations from the engine shutdown telegraphs to the brake pedal, and to me it felt like the brakes were slipping or skipping when I lessened my foot pressure on the brake pedal (at the same time the engine shuts-down to battery mode). This type of symptom does not occur in my Gen I 2002 Prius, so it is a "feature" for 2010 model.

I'm just glad it was not a real braking problem. Leith Toyota did not charge me a service call for this examination.

 

no worries on braking,, i havent seen anything more than one second skip,,WT Hell, i like the car

 

Still on first tank of gas, so I realize I don't have experience yet, but one question I have about this. Is the mechanical brake system in any way "by wire?" I notice the power assist is set very high on the Prius, my son commented on it when he drove it. Very "sensitive." But, here's my point: if I'm coming up to an intersection I need to stop for, and there's rough pavement which causes an anomaly with ABS or whatever is causing this, is there any reason why I can't just keep applying pressure to the brake and engage the mechanical system?
I've had ABS cause similar perceptions of brakes not working adequately in other cars (non-hybrid) before, and it gives a little "scary" pause, but I could always recover in time to stop. But if this is something different, related to some kind of system "reset" and there is as much as a full second when there are NO BRAKES, then that's not acceptable. (A second is a LONG time when trying to stop.)

 

Just so you know we are not jumping on a bandwagon. We bought our first Toyota Corolla 1200 in Montreal in 1968. We've been married 42 years and have owned Toyotas for 42 years.

I assure you, there is something different about the hybrid braking system that causes it to fail on rare occasions. If you are unlucky you will rear end the car in front or worse go through an intersection and risk injury. This is what happened to us.

We are confident enough in the Toyota brand that the solution to our problem with the Prius was to have the dealer (who was most cooperative) take it in trade for a non-hybrid Camry that was a year older. We were satisfied with the dealer. They are caught in a hard place between the manufacturer and their customers.

 

f

Please help out a newbie - I went to My Toyota and registered, and I can find only one reference that may be the warranty work, under dealer service records, a "diagnostic" performed under warranty in Feb. before I bought it. Is this the warranty/recall work? How do I verify?

Thanks.

 

You should consider buying a lottery ticket given you have less half of 1% chance of having a brake failure. Toyota sold a lot of these cars.

 

The mechanical braking system is entirely "by wire". Pressing harder just tells the computer to use more force on the brakes.

The only time the brakes operate directly (not by wire) is after a catastrophic failure of the braking system. If power is lost or the computer braking system fails, the mechanical brakes fail-over to a fully conventional "dumb" hydraulic system.

Tom

 

It is an ordinary hydraulic system, not by wire.

Works every time. The only way to feel the 'slide' is to hold the brake pedal constant. Huntsville streets are so slippery after a rain that we always 'dealt with it.' I had to practice holding the brake constant to replicate the problem. As one experience Prius owner says,"Just drive the car."

No different, about 800 milliseconds when measured with an accelerometer. The fix takes less than an hour, mostly waiting for the technician to come free. It is a piece of cake and it all but eliminates any pause. It is harmless.

Bob Wilson

 

Thanks, I'm really not too worried about this "issue," and would just like to ensure the "diagnostic" my car shows on the Toyota site is, in fact, the "recall." Matter of fact, I don't mind sharing that all this hype and neg. pub. was a major contributor to my deciding to get a Prius at this time. Before, and especially when gas was 4.00 and up, the dealers around here were charging real premiums on these cars, when you could even find them. During March, the lot slowly filled with them, and it seemed a good time to get one.

I do not believe you can keep a company like Toyota down, and am extremely satisfied with my Prius. Braking seems very good, almost too good, but I haven't tried it on ice yet. Actually, all cars with ABS have issues on ice, I've noticed, and you have to prepare for that. I read the entire thread on this here, 67 pages, and I now realize it was more about the transition from regen to friction braking than ABS, and must say I've noticed how smooth my Prius is in transition - so I guess it has had the update.

Can't wait until gas hits 4.00 gallon in a few months. I can't believe how well engineered the Prius is and wish I'd gotten one years ago.

 

I think Bob misunderstood this question, as I know he knows the answer. In normal operation, the mechanical brakes (friction brakes) on a Prius are entirely controlled by wire. The brake pedal only works as a control input to the computer system. Only in the event of a failure of the computer controlled system does the brake pedal hydraulics actually connect to the brakes at the wheels. The rest of the time the pedal hydraulics only run a "stroke simulator" that makes it feel like there is a real connection.

Tom

 

Speaking of jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire ...

The last time I saw a breakdown by model, Prius had no fatalities from its alleged brake dropout problem. Camry accounted for a third of Toyota's alleged SUA fatalities (17 out of 51 at that time).

The alleged count has doubled since then, but I haven't seen an updated list by model.

 

You're right the mechanical, brake shoe part, is modulated by wire but ultimately, in the event of a complete electrical failure, we still have the hydraulic pistons and calipers . . . the ultimate backup. Loss of the ABS control computer and electronics and the car will still stop.

Sometimes I try to answer what I think the original questioner was asking and not all the details. Thanks, I sometimes get a little too brief.

Bob Wilson

 

Fuzzy, Would you mind translating SUA for me. Thanks.

 

SUA is Sudden Unintended Acceleration, i.e. the stuck gas pedals, engine surges, and runaway cars that accounted for most of Toyota's negative publicity.

This was a snide retort, I'm not seriously concerned about these supposed Toyota problems. Even if all the cases are confirmed, these cars are still much safer than the older cars in my household -- cars that lack TC, VSC, greatly enhanced crash protection, and multiple airbags. The spouse refuses to give up her pre-airbag car.

One of the articles linked to a recent thread put this in perspective for me. The burning GM pickup sidesaddle gas tanks continue to be involved in fatalities, many years after the involuntary recall and settlement with the feds. The post settlement deaths from this single problem in a single series of pickups well exceed all the various current alleged Toyota problems across its entire model line.

And how much publicity is going into getting the owners of the pickups not brought in for recall service to please, please, please do so? Almost nothing.

 

Not that I ever do that.

Bob, the reason I posted a clarification is I think the OP was asking about normal operation, not the backup system, although I'm not completely sure. Sometimes it's hard to guess exactly what they are asking. Sometimes they don't know *what* to ask.

Tom

 

That is the antilock brakes doing their job. Most do not understand how they work.

-Brad

 

Anti-gravity, right?

Tom

 

Magic smoke, just don't let it escape!

FYI, I've been tracking Prius Accidents but it is important to try and get more than one source of an accident report. The first report called it "a Prius" but the second one called it a "Ford Escape" (hybrid?). Remember, many reporters are working to deadline and aren't expert in vehicle identification:

http://www.telluridewatch.com/view/...ve----?instance=secondary_stories_left_column

http://www.montrosepress.com/articles/2010/04/25/news/doc4bd237006368c073933921.txt

I suspect this is the more accurate report.

The worst winter blizzard I was ever in was in the Spring approaching the Grand Tetons. Winter doesn't really give up until nearly summer.

Bob Wilson

 

So are you worried about downhill pre-turn braking in winter conditions in the 2010 or is this anomaly a chimera?

Any general opinions on this thread on the Prius winter/mountain driving capabilities?