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You, too, can be gored by a bull.

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by daniel, Jul 6, 2010.

  1. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    According to this story on Yahoo news, the big festival in Pamplona, Spain, has begun, and tomorrow will be the famous "running of the bulls" when

    Talk about lunacy!

    However, you can participate in the nine day party without exposing yourself to the bulls, merely by staying indoors or watching from a balcony. I'm guessing that owners of balconies along the route can charge a hefty fee for places. For myself, I would not want to watch people being gored, but bullfighting is big in Spain, and I'm sure part of the thrill is watching the occasional torero get himself mutilated or killed. To be fair to the Spaniards, however, I never actually met anyone in my 18 months there who thought bullfighting was anything other than barbaric, and I even saw graffiti proclaiming that if bullfighting is art, then cannibalism is gastronomy.
     
  2. vegasjetskier

    vegasjetskier New Member

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    The running of the bulls is another form of natural selection. Nominees for the Darwin Award, start lining up!
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    I agree with you daniel... bullfighting is barbaric... but it's also part of Spanish history and culture. When I was in Spain a few years ago, I saw a bullfight. One is certainly enough to last me the rest of my life, but learning the history and culture behind it, and how it all plays out in the acts of the fight is really intriguing.

    While the same could be said about the history and culture surrounding the running of the bulls... I would never get down in the street for that!
     
  4. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    :D

    A lot of Spaniards hate the way that bullfighting is portrayed as part of Spanish culture. A lot of them hate Hemmingway for making bullfighting synonymous with Spain. But at least in Pamplona the running of the bulls only kills the idiots who go down into the street with them. (Though I imagine they have bullfighting also.)
     
  5. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    They may hate it, but that doesn't make it any less true. Modern bullfighting has been a part of Spain for almost 300 years. Even before that, some of the oldest indications of bullfighting can be found in ancient cave paintings and tombstones in Spain.

    I will agree with you that bullfighting hasn't been limited to Spain. In fact, arguably its popularity spread to Spain from Rome (and then from Spain to Central/South American and parts of France). But i believe Spain may be the only place where members of the Royal Family attend regularly (the king even presides over bullfights occasionally!).
     
  6. Rae Vynn

    Rae Vynn Artist In Residence

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    Bullfighting is right up there with the rest of the "machismo" culture - patriarchy, inequality, discrimination, racism, and homophobia.

    I did think that the "running with the bulls" scene in "City Slickers" was good, though :p
     
  7. Luis138

    Luis138 Angel Rat

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    I agree, bull figthing is a sign that in 2010 humanity still gets enjoyment out of acts of bloody animal torture.

    Thank you for reminding me of one of my favorite movies, that movie is a classic in my eyes :rockon:

    Luis
     
  8. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i've never been gored by a bull, but i think i've been bulled by gore on more than one occasion.:D
     
  10. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    From the linked page:

    I don't think that sobriety is a requirement in Pamplona. In fact, I'd be surprised if there are any sober people in the street in Pamplona when they let the bulls out.

    BTW, in my experience, the Basque Country was the least friendly part of Spain. Galicia was the friendliest. Extremadura was the only region I did not visit. No reason. I just never got around to it.
     
  11. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    daniel - I'm not terribly surprised that you didn't get a warm welcome in the Basque area. The Basque separatists have been pushing for independence in that area for 40 years now, and are very much against foreigners. It wouldn't surprise me if the entire area shared some of those feelings, even though most of them aren't actually part of the ETA terrorist organization.
     
  12. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Actually, I am convinced that a majority of Basques do NOT want to separate. Spain will not permit an election on the subject, but I think if they did, separation would lose. The regions are already autonomous. There was a basque couple on the hiking trip I took in Galicia. They were quite nice, and did not want separation.

    ETA are crackpot, not only in their use of terrorism, but in their racial and historical-political theories. For example, they insist they are a separate race because their language is unrelated to any known language. It's true about the language, but you need only look at them to see they are 100% Caucasian by race.

    There's a very good book by a famous Basque writer (I think it might be Miguel de Unamuno, but I'm not sure) talking about the history of ETA, and how they evolved from a humane movement into a band of vicious killers. Franco played a large part in that, since his brutal repression of Basque language and culture radicalized the separatists, and drove some moderates to the separatist camp.

    While I was living in Seville, ETA murdered a doctor in that city. Walked up behind him and shot him in the back of the head. Apparently for no other reason than that he was affiliated (in his capacity as a doctor) with the police or military or something.
     
  13. Tom183

    Tom183 New Member

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  14. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    San Fermin is one of the most fun festivals that I have attended. Yes I ran with the bulls, yes I bought the white pants and red sash, and yes I even bought a newspaper I had no intention of reading to hit the bulls with while they passed by. It was a rush, a release of different feelings that are often missing in the modern sterile world most people live in. I am responding only because it seems that no one else is talking about the good parts of the festival and cultural diversity in general. I don't really expect most of you to listen, or even understand if you have not experienced it. Everyone is over 18 and its their own fault if they get hurt. Around 15 people have been killed in 700 runnings in the last 100 years. I just want to add a little perspective so that if you are talking to a proud Spaniard, you don't act like an ugly American and lecture them about what is wrong with part of their culture.

    By the way I found the basques to be quite friendly, but I did talk to them with out any prejudgment. Austinite's aren't good judges of friendliness, we get along with just about everyone.
     
  15. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I never told any Spaniards that there was anything wrong with their culture. I did occasionally ask their opinion of bullfighting, and the answer I always got was that it's cruel and barbaric. Obviously, not all of them think that, because people still go to bullfights. But all the Spaniards I ever spoke with about it, excoriated it.

    In Mexico, I'd say I heard about half positive and half negative comments. All my Mexican friends thought it is barbaric, but I did speak to a lot of Mexicans who didn't think that. The whole idea of animal rights is far less widespread in Mexico than it is in Europe and North America. More disturbing to me was in Monterrey, to see the cabritos (baby goats) hanging in the butcher shop windows. They are the size of small dogs, and hanging, skinned, by their hind legs, they really do look like skinned dogs.

    I never brought up Hemmingway. But every now and then I read nasty comments about him by Spaniards, who resent his focus on such machismo as bullfighting, which they feel gives foreigners the wrong idea about them.
     
  16. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I must have just misunderstood the comments. I enjoy the running, but definitely understand it is not for everyone. In fact that is part of the point of the festival. I didn't care for the bullfight. After seeing what goes on in factory farms, I hesitate in calling what I saw in the bull ring barbaric.

     
  17. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I call bullfighting, factory farms, and slaughterhouses barbaric. But then I've never been reluctant to express my opinions.
     
  18. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    As a kid I remember my grandfather having a bad opinion of bullfighting. As a Spanish sheep rancher he was used to killing livestock but maybe that is one of the reasons he didn't like the way bullfights played out or what they represented. He emigrated from Spain in 1911.