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Triangle of death and scangauge

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by wwu123, Aug 9, 2010.

  1. wwu123

    wwu123 Junior Member

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    Well, made my little RJ45 extension cable, found the Scangauge waiting in the mailbox, so put it all together and connect it to the car and ....

    ....no triangle of death today, and just code P0000, which I guess just means the Scangauge couldn't understand it.

    Looks like a really handy tool though. I'm going to start punching in XGauge codes tonight, so I can hopefully catch some error codes and values tomorrow on the road.
     
  2. wwu123

    wwu123 Junior Member

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    Drove around for 20 min, and of course no warning lights for the first time in days. But I did collect the following values:
    btV: 212V when engine off, 288-318V when driving around
    soc: 60-67% typical, when forcing stealth got it down to 48 for a while, but charged back up fine
    delta SOC: 20-21%
    Battery block voltages: 15.5-17V typical, highest and lowest within 0.3-0.4V
     
  3. jk450

    jk450 New Member

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    Assuming that the data is accurate, you need a battery pack.
     
  4. vincent1449p

    vincent1449p Active Member

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    Hi wwu123,

    For engine off, do you mean ignition off?

    For ignition off, it should be blank and read 0V when you switch to ign-on. Only when [READY], then you will get high voltage reading. If during ignition off and you read 212V, there are leakage somewhere.

    If you have time tomorrow, try to record R01 ~ R19. You may need to do it one at a time because some of the RXF are the same. If there are leakages in the battery, you should read some blocks with abnormal resistance. I 'm also interested in the values for ic1 ~ ic5. TIA.
     
  5. andyprius

    andyprius Senior Member

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    Doing a great job! Between Bob Wilson, Vincent and Lucious Garage you are well on your way.;)
     
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    See if you can find a pattern on the lowest module pairs. Typically one goes out first but often with adjacent modules also showing weakness. Often you can drive around, fully warming up the car, and then when you park, the ICE off, the voltages will stabalize.

    Bob Wilson
     
  7. wwu123

    wwu123 Junior Member

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    Most of the values I noted were after ignition-on, while driving around or standing still. But after I put the car in park and turned the key to turn the engine off (I think it was might've been in the accessory-on key position), I noticed the 212V during the 12 seconds it took the Scangauge to auto turnoff. Should I be trying to capture voltages when the engine is not running, so that I'm not capturing the charging system voltage as opposed to the battery voltage? Just like the 12V battery reads 12.8V while the car is off, but was reading 13.4-13.5V with the car on. (By the way, is that last value a bit low, I think it's nominally 13.8V?)

    I'll try to capture more values including block resistances tonight. I didn't see ic1-ic5 in the downloaded tables in the other thread. Have those been decoded yet for XGauge?
     
  8. wwu123

    wwu123 Junior Member

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    Thanks, what's the giveaway in the data?

    Is it the module voltages? Just to avoid confusion, looking at way I wrote the numbers, the modules were going up and down together within 0.3-0.4V, they were not 15.5 to 17 at the same time. So when the system was at high SOC, the hi module voltage would be about 17.0, the low module voltage at 16.6. When the HV battery was being called on for power in stealth to lower SOC, the hi module would slowly drop to say 15.5, the low module to 15.2.
     
  9. wwu123

    wwu123 Junior Member

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    What's the proper car state for observing the voltages with the ICE off? I think that with Gen1, when I drive around then stop, the ICE will shut off (is this what folks call ready-on?). But if I put it into Park, I think Gen1 turns the ICE back on. Or should I Park and turn the ignition to accessory-on, which will kill the ICE?
     
  10. jk450

    jk450 New Member

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    212V at rest.
     
  11. jk450

    jk450 New Member

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    In your case, there isn't a lot of useful information to be had by observing block voltages at rest.
     
  12. wwu123

    wwu123 Junior Member

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    Drove a few errands this morning, and had a chance to get a bit more familiar with the tool. First, I'd say disregard the 212V at accessory-on, it appears to be a transient value right at shutoff, I've seen it show 212V, 82V, 0V on different shutoffs. It seems like the tool only gathers data when the ignition is on, and is not actively getting any data in accessory or off key positions.

    In ready-on (observed at various stop signs with the ICE off), the values seem fairly consistent:
    soc 65% +/-2
    btV 310V +/- 4
    vLo: 15.8 +/- 0.2
    vHi: 16.0 +/- 0.2

    Also I just drove normally around the suburbs this morning, didn't force stealth or anything, the values fluctuated as the ICE and battery were being called on, but not wildly so.
     
  13. w2co

    w2co Member

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    Oops you beat to it..
    Hi there, good job so far you're making good headway. I thought I would remind you to select "hybrid" in the "fuel type" menu in SGII. This way it won't shut off when the ice stops. Didn't know if you did that yet.

    For "What's the proper car state for observing the voltages with the ICE off?" the voltage and SOC reading will vary a bit during driving, and depending on how hard you regen brake which has the fastest charge rate just before reading. But I would think that the voltage after sitting all night just before startup, not after because it will draw some out of the battery pack to start then after it starts will immediately go do a charge cycle.. Try to read it before starting but ign. on (not started yet) I have done this with the AE software, but can't remember if I ever did with the SG. BTW I use the SGII to monitor SOC at all times while driving and at a glance I can tell a lot. As I mentioned before, our 03 seems to like 58SOC, I can get it to 60 or even 62 at times (down hills a lot and regen braking) sometimes non-avoidable. It will drop down to say 53 to 55 during highway driving. After those times I like to drive around the block before parking just to get it back up to 58-60 before shutdown. So check your SOC when driving to see if that also drops drastically. But I also agree that 212V is too low, either you have the voltage leak from corrosion or you have one or more bad cells. May be time for a reconditioned pack from re-involt w/gen2 cells.

     
  14. w2co

    w2co Member

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    The original triangle of death you were getting.. that still could be a hi voltage leak somewhere from the info. presented. So get used to the SG and I would clear the codes if it has any now, but when it gets a new code you may be able to grab it. Sounds like now it's all ok, but you know electrical shorts can show up and go away at anytime especially if the carbon trail from the last short decided to raise it's resistance for now, it's only a matter of time til the next.
     
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Excellent! These are good values. To keep the ICE off, you could just set the parking brake and shift into "N" when it is off. <GRINS>

    Other than the P3009, this is OK. In fact, you may be a candidate for just a battery 'clean up' and then avoid "heat is the enemy!"

    Woot! Woot! Now I'm thinking this might work.

    Bob Wilson
     
  16. jk450

    jk450 New Member

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    Hence my caveat "assuming the data is accurate."

    Turn the ignition key to "on" without starting the vehicle. Do you get a stable voltage reading for the battery pack? If so, what is it?
     
  17. jk450

    jk450 New Member

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    Not necessarily. A failing battery pack - or, for that matter, any battery - can easily return "good" values at rest.

    Again, not necessarily. If you want to learn about battery basics, there are several excellent tutorials available online.
     
  18. jk450

    jk450 New Member

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  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Was the humidity unusually high when you were getting the codes?

    The KOH is hydroscopic and I'm wondering if a little "dew" in the system might have helped form the short. I agree that it needs to be addressed but between Lucious Garage and Art's Automotive, you have two of the best known, west coast, independent shops.

    If you can, you might try plotting the module-pair voltages, #1 is adjacent to the control electronics. Excellent work!

    Bob Wilson
     
  20. andyprius

    andyprius Senior Member

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    12,8 looks good, but I thought that 14.1 is nominal voltage in charge,(new bat), if the 12V is at mid-life then your readings seem proportional and still healthy.