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Putting the PHV through it's paces in the hot desert... (Rick's turn for the PHV)

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by HTMLSpinnr, Aug 14, 2010.

  1. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    View in at least 360p to see SG II numbers, 720p recommended.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uu5gEu772Y"]YouTube - Prius PHV test w/ ScanGauge II in EV[/ame]
     
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  2. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    I'm thinking I'm going to make one more run, but use cruise control to hold the speed. Thr% won't be avail, but it should yield more constant torque values. I can display MG2 RPM as well instead of MPH since that's already shown on the speedo (granted they don't always agree, and I'm inclined to think SGII is more accurate).
     
  3. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    I haven't been following these threads that closely, but from what I gather, when the the EV light that's part of the HSI, on the right side (not the left one) goes out, that means the ICE is on?
     
  4. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    Correct. The EV "plug" on the left, means EV is possible (Sub1 or Sub2 have sufficient charge to allow EV). The EV indicator (where Eco normally sits) means that you are in EV, and that the ICE is not activated. If you trigger the ICE, your MPG gauge will drop and EV above the HSI will extinguish.
     
  5. linuxpenguin

    linuxpenguin Active Member

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    Mmm, thanks again for all the interesting observations. It's too bad we don't know current / voltage because I suspect the fluctuation in HSI% may have something to do with voltage drop due to internal resistance. Do you notice the fluctuations being less severe immediately after a charge versus in the middle or at the end?

    Andrew
     
  6. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    You know, I believe it's constant, though I haven't experimented enough over the varying SOC ranges (nor can we see these until someone figures out an XGAUGE query that works for each pack).

    One exception is once you're at the magic 1.6 mile ICE pre-heat mark, very light pressure will jump the HSI into the PWR range. Also, once in hybrid mode, if the SOC is low, the HSI also becomes far more sensitive.

    It's a behavior I've seen in my 2010 as well, but was based more on supposition and suspicion rather than hard gauge facts.
     
  7. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    Took another video, this time using cruise control. Unfortunately, I disabled motion compensation in the camera which ended up being a bad idea (it was clipping edges last time), which ultimately makes it not post-worthy. Fortunately night time makes videos smaller and exposure more consistent, so I got 17 min, which allowed me to capture some decent data points. These numbers are straight off the gauge, not allowing for any error in the XGAUGE formula for torque, etc. Speed was taken from vehicle speedo this time. I was viewing Thr %, MG1 Torque, MG2 RPM, and MG2 Torque. Cruise control was used to "hold" speeds. MG2 RPM is approximate for each speed as it did vary somewhat +/- 50rpm at a given speed.

    Speed, MG2 RPM, Torque range (notes)

    45mph, 5270rpm, 5.8-8.0ft/lbs (slight down-hill mix)
    36mph, 4170rpm, 5.4-6.4ft/lbs
    44mph, 5100rpm, 6.1-7.6ft/lbs (more level)
    46mph, 5372rpm, 7.2-9.0ft/lbs (rougher, typical 8.2)
    56mph, 6500rpm, 11.5-14.0ft/lbs (rougher caused rise, typical 12.2, flat to very slight up-hill)
    45mph, 5230rpm, 9.8-12.0ft/lbs (typical 10.8, opposite direction, slight up-hill)
    35mph, 4135rpm, 4.2-6.5ft/lbs

    With these numbers, we should be able to establish realized HP/kW, but still don't have a good idea of what the input current is to achieve it.

    Some pedal positions observed that triggered ICE:
    Very low speed, ~80% ICE threshold eco
    45mph, ~70% ICE threshold eco

    Max regen torque -80.2ft/lbs low speed, but higher speed (i.e. 40mph) just -14ft/lbs w/ "chg" full. Probably current related/limited.
     
  8. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    I'm not sure this question was asked before, but...
    We know the PHV has three battery packs and it is said that only one pack is used in CS mode.

    We saw the battery level becomes easily full on a long downhill on the regular Prius, then the ICE runs hard to consume potential energy.

    I would like to know how the PHV Prius behaves on such downhill driving.

    Thanks in advance,
    Ken@Japan
     
  9. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    I'm not sure I'll be in such a situation to do a long down-hill test before I need to return the vehicle. There's a few highways nearby where this could be achieved (I-17), but as I have to go to work the next couple of days, the only drives I can do are commutes.
     
  10. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Now see? this is EXACTLY why I should have been the test candidate, as I'd be WAY more than willing to head out to the 6,800' bitter rout pass over the contenental divide, to see what kind of charging it'd do.

    ;)

    .
     
  11. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    LOL hill, I wish I had the time. My family would kill me if I embarked on a 1-2 hour road trip for this sake... ;)


    Today's stats:

    EV:

    13.7 miles EV (11.371 miles full w/o ICE)
    97˚F ambient, but higher humidity
    83/17% EV/HV ratio before EV exhausted. Note: this is VERY consistent for me and the same values I saw in Torrance when EV range ended.

    EV exhausted 1.5 miles from freeway. Took my "normal" route today. Took a bit more freeway as a result, but that was post EV exhaustion (see beginning of thread for distance).

    Tomorrow I'll reproduce the route I used for the first trip.

    Vehicle stats at end of trip:

    26.1 miles
    44%EV/56%HV
    34mph average
    MPG pegged at 99.9mpg

    SG II trip stats (not fully calibrated, so distance does differ):
    66 mph max
    32mph avg (I had to capture this quickly as it was dropping while I was parked)
    112mpg avg
    .23 gallons consumed
    25.5 miles
    4208 rpm max (on-ramp merging)
    0.7 hours

    Some *VERY* interesting observations now that I have SGII available. Once the 1.6 mile mark has been hit, I noticed that the HSI sensitivity was increased even after ICE warm-up (though not as sensitive as during ICE warm-up). I could apply pressure into the PWR range (or cruise-control would do the same) and disable the "EV" light, but ICE RPM was still at zero! I wonder if this means it's drawing from the HV pack as well. MG2 torque was at a similar value as when in full EV (6-8ft/lbs), so I know there was no ICE assist. Either way, it's a bit mis-leading, and makes me wish I could see current draw from each battery pack (main and sub1/sub2). Also, while ICE was warming up, I did see periods of cruising MG2 negative torque values at 45ish mph.
     
  12. Tobbe

    Tobbe New Member

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    I have a question about the phv prius.
    I regulary drive 35miles. The first 5miles is city driving below 40mph. Then highway driving for 20miles at 70mph, then the last 10miles below 40mph.

    Is there going to be anything left in the battery for ev driving for the last 10miles? or is the car drawing energy from the ev battery at 70mph so it will be depleted for the last 10 miles?

    I also wonder, when the battery pack is depleted, does the car use more gas then the regular 2010 prius due to the extra weight? (or is lithium helping?)

    My english may not be the best, hope you guys understand me :)
     
  13. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    You'll likely end up using EV on the highway along w/ the ICE, however I don't have a good way to truly validate this as I'm at least 8 miles from the nearest freeway onramp where I could exceed the EV speed. We've all commented that we REALLY want a way to toggle EV where possible. It would allow us to regen the EV packs on long down-grades, and conserve EV only power for city driving.

    I thought it would, but my first trip w/ the engine warmed up revealed 65.8mpg, whereas my 2010 would have gotten low 50s, best case. The Lithium-Ion batteries do help in other ways, despite the additional weight.

    Loud and clear, its better than you think.
     
  14. ksstathead

    ksstathead Active Member

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    Tobbe

    Since your highway driving is over the 65 mph EV limit, that portion will be in HV mode and not draw from the EV packs, at least in the prototypes. So you would still have EV available on the final city section. No idea what the production version might do differently.

    If traffic or choice holds you under 65, then it will tend to stay in EV and use up your charge on the highway, leaving you in HV mode in the final city section.
     
  15. FireEngineer

    FireEngineer Active Member

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    Well you guys are close on the max power draw. An SAE paper I have written by Toyota states 40 kW.

    Wayne
     
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  16. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    My understanding is that PHV Prius will continue to deplete the charge (CD) either in EV or HV mode.

    Charge Sustain (CD) mode is reached only when 1.6 miles EV range is left.
     
  17. Danny

    Danny Admin/Founder
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    That's correct, at least with the prototypes. The Prius draws energy from the EV packs first, then from the HV pack. Part of me hopes that changes with the production version, but part of me can see why you would want it to be done the current way in order to boost highway speed MPGs.
     
  18. ksstathead

    ksstathead Active Member

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    REALLY hope they allow override to HV without EV pack depletion on production version.
     
  19. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Unlikely, since that would interfere with the PZEV certification.

    What's wrong with 233 MPG at 70 MPH anyway?
    .
     
  20. ksstathead

    ksstathead Active Member

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    John, I do not accept 233 "mpg" whether it is you touting this PHV or GM doing the same with the volt. These are meaningless numbers. You have a ~14 mile EV range that can be used up quickly at 70 mph, then you have other driving to do after exiting. I can do more with EV mode at certain points of a drive than at others.

    You are choosing not to account for the kwh from the plug. You also are trying to put everyone in a "just drive it" mold with your exact driving patterns.

    I appreciate what you do, but you may be losing perspective and objectivity.