Prius vs the others

The Honda technology is not as efficient. The engine must turn at all times, as I understand. It also must run for A/C, and one of the tests requires use of A/C. Insight has been known to get some pretty high numbers outside of the official test.

The Fusion is 700 lb. heavier than a Prius. Part of this is because it has a larger gas engine, which I would assume is less efficient.

 

The Fusion is 20% heavier than the Prius and gets 20% lower MPG. Seems to have the same efficiency.
-mort

 

Honda IMA is an assist-type hybrid. It supports engine off at stops and limited electric only propulsion, but falls short of the harmonius blending of power sources in HSD. To get really good mpg from IMA, folks seem to avoid assist from the pack even more than Prius drivers. Next-gen IMA needs to add a clutch or two and increased pack size if it wants to compete. At that point it may get into Toyota patents, I don't know.

HSD and Ford Hybrids are so similar the companies decided to cross license rather than sue each other. Ford can more or less match Toyota on efficiency, but the Fusion is a heavier car with bigger ICE.

 

Besides the reasons already mentioned, the Insight and Civic Hybrid actually have worse acceleration than the Prius even though they get inferior mileage too. Notice they ended up on Best & worst cars review, best & worst acceleration. In CR's testing, the 2010 Prius did 0-60 mph in 10.6 seconds.

 

Toyota Company is best company!

Thats why everyone was trying to take them down 7 months ago.

 

Well I have one of each. 06 HCH2 and 06 Prius. The a/c is electric on the HCH2. They get very similar FE's.. The Prius does not require the attention that the Honda requires to get good FE however. They are both very good auto's.

 

Fusion and Prius use similar or essentially same tech, Ford licenses its use from Toyota I think. The Insight gets bad mileage because Honda's hybrid approach is grossly inferior. The only reason the original Insight did so well is because it had a pitifully small engine in a pitifully small car. They are well past the point at which they have any good excuse for how they implement hybrid technology. The engine shutoff turning off AC is a particularly comical side effect of their engineering.

 

Seems to me manufacturers are hitting a theoretical wall when it comes to size and weight vs. mpg. Mainstream America is looking for a hybrid that compares in every way to ice sedans, trucks, sports cars but delivers better numbers in one thing: mpg.

The prius has haters in part due to it's design. Ford fusion is seeing success because it has all the perks of toyotas HSD in an attractive (more attractive than the camry hybrid) platform.

 

While it may be an economic wall, it is not a theoretical wall. As I said in an earlier post:

"... See 'Better Mileage Now", Scientific American, Feb. 2010, pg. 50. The author is a Honda VP.

Page 52 has a laundry list of improvements studied recently by NHTSA. Prius has only half of them, leaving room for another 20 to 35% improvement from this list alone. "

 

The Gen 1 Insight got great mileage because of its reduced weight (1800#), manual tranny, Lean Burn, and good aerodynamics. The Prius, while being the best mpg at present, is still 10 mpg behind the Insight 1. It suffers from weight problems, and size problems, but makes up for these with a great hybrid design, efficient engine, and the designed in ability to coast and EV. If the Prius was downsized to the Insight 1 , in weight and size, I think it would do about the same, mpg wise. I liked them both, they are just very different cars. Scaling up the Insight 1 to the HCH and Insight 2 , required a CVT to overcome some of the hybrid problems, and the mild hybrid while being just as efficient on the open road, is not that great with hills and city driving, hence the lower mpg. The Fusion is an oversized Prius designwise. Reliabilitywise the Fusion is untried, the Insight 1 from my standpoint was good - 180,000 miles before the battery needed replacement, Prius seems to be just as good.

 

"The Fusion is 20% heavier than the Prius and gets 20% lower MPG. Seems to have the same efficiency.
-mort "

They carry the same number of people. cargo capacity isn't that different. So depending on that measure of efficiency, it's less efficient. 700 extra pounds for no extra capacity = inefficient(if that's what you're measuring)

 

It was a pay article, and the comments didn't make it seem worth to pay for it. What are the major list of issues.

The obvious ones to me are DI, which only should cost $200 per car, but either increase performance, or fuel mileage if the engine shrinks. The second is Lithium batteries, but toyota owns most of the biggest nimh producer so there are definitely some political issues with that.

Air induction would be the next step, but if efficiency is the goal, it would not help the current engine, and you would need to shrink it and probably make it 3 cylinders. Ford is building a 1L 3cyl 120hp DI turbo, and nissan a 1.2L 3 cyl 100hp miller cycle. either type of design might dissuade buyers who fear the 3 cylinder.

Adding a plug and larger battery is the next obvious thing and toyota has it planned for mid 2012.

Aluminum unibody with lower frontal area and perhaps plastic/fiber glass/ or carbon fiber body panels. You could also add fairings for the rear wheels.

You have a strange yard stick. In taiwan I've seen families of 4 traveling on 100cc motor cycles. In bali I rode around with 2 woman on a 250cc motor cycle and it carried all that we needed. I don't really need all that back seat and cargo space in the prius, its just a waste to me. The more comfortable seat, better acceleration, and locking trunk are definitely features that I liked in the fusion, but I went for the mileage instead.