2002 Transaxle and more?

I suspect you can reach the dealer but the safest approach is to have it towed ($$$). However, you might be able to drive there . . . if you are prepared to have it towed if it stops. You know the distances and speeds. Regardless, now that the error lights have come up, there will be codes that can be read out.

A Scangauge ($150-175), Graham miniscanner ($150 deposit, $15/mo rental), Auto Enginuity ($400 plus your laptop) or Tech Stream Lite ($1,200-1,500 plus your laptop) can read out the codes to confirm a diagnosis.

The "jet engine" sound is new and suggests a new failure mode. Right off the bat I'm wondering if the transaxle oil leaked out from perhaps hitting something under the car, hard. But really, without the vehicle and codes, it is difficult to do more than speculate and guess.

The most common transaxle failure has been a shorted MG2 stator coil. However, it usually sounds like a hum than a 'jet engine.' Also, if the car is rolling and shifted into "N", the sound remains. When you shift into "N", all power to MG1 and MG2 is removed so only mechanical noise remains or the humming noise from a shorted stator.

Bob Wilson

 

Does it change if you make a left for right turn? That would indicate a wheel bearing, a much nicer problem to have.

Does it change if you accelerate or brake?

Does the pitch, the tone, seem to follow engine speed, vehicle speed, or some weird mix?

The 'jet engine' sound could it be a screech? There are obscure brake problems, typically small gravel or rock in the pads, that can do it too.

Regardless, be sure and get the codes and subcodes when they diagnose the problem (tell them 'my brain trusts wants to know.') <GRINS>

GOOD LUCK!
Bob Wilson

 

Assuming the code is related to the noise, you have a failed motor winding.

 

It's the part of the transaxle that fails most often, with symptoms mirroring those that you are experiencing.

 

Excellent but could you share some of your technical background? This would make it easier to communicate more effectively without going into a bunch of techno-babble.

The code means:

P3009 - Leak Detected​

The high voltage circuit from the battery to the inverter has what is commonly called a ground fault detector. This sensitive circuit detects any voltage leakage from the high voltage section to the car. But over the years, we've found the most common source is electrolyte leakage, similar to battery leakage. We have two recent threads that provide a lot of technical details:

• http://priuschat.com/forums/generat...-traction-battery-autopsy-11.html#post1173379 - one the best documented analysis of a Prius traction battery with excellent photos shows the effects of electrolyte leakage.
• http://priuschat.com/forums/generat...ttery-frankenstein-project-4.html#post1198025 - how "oldnoah" rebuilt his other traction battery that had a P3009 code.

This is my earlier work: Prius Battery Photos

What we've found is P3009 can often be an intermittent problem. What happens is the electrolyte can absorb moisture from the air and become conductive. But as the current flows, the water is heated and can evaporate or it can convert via electrolysis into hydrogen and oxygen. So the 'ground fault', the P3009, can come and go but it is the signature of a marginal traction battery. Over time, it can partially discharge some modules leading to a more severe traction battery problem but it may not fail right away.

What we typically like to do is clear the error code(s) and then see if they come back. This lets us know if it is a constant fault or intermittent. But to clear the code, you'll either need a scanner or simply disconnect the 12 V battery ground for 3-5 minutes, to reset all of the control computers.

By all means, let Toyota take the first crack at a solution. But you have alternatives:

1. Re-InVolt - I recommend finding someone to help swap the traction battery, it is very heavy. I've helped swap one so technically it is not that big of a deal. Best of all, there is a growing list of independent shops (search the forum for the thread.) Expected cost ~$1,700.
2. rebuild it - the earlier thread is one of the best documented reports of what it takes to rebuild a traction battery starting with two. It takes skill and understanding and "oldnoah" brought that along with some really nice test instruments and a workplace. Probably around $500-700 for salvage traction battery; $500 for instruments; work bench and tools; and ~60-80 hours with some technical skills required.
3. Other rebuilders - I understand some of the San Francisco independent shops have done this. There may be others but I've not worked with them.

But let's try to understand the "jet noise."

On the driver side, behind the passenger is an air exhaust vent used by the battery cooling fan. When you next hear the "jet" sound, find a place to park the car and see if the noise is coming from this vent.

We don't normally associate P3009 with an overheated traction battery. Usually it is associated with P3011-P3029, identifies a failing module, or P3006, uneven State of Charge (SOC). However, to electrolyte leaks could cause overheating and that would be bad.

Bob Wilson

 

Thanks, I'm good with that.

Are we OK on the electrolyte leak? Like old batteries that can corrode in a flashlight, our Prius batteries can lose some of the electrolyte. This is more likely to happen if it runs hot by parking in direct sunlight, speeds over 65 mph, and hilly terrain. The cooler we can keep the traction batteries and avoid stress, the longer they tend to last.

We have the older style traction batteries which are more sensitive to heat. The newer NHW20 modules have lower internal resistance so they tend to run cooler and they have much stronger terminal seals. Together, they are substantially improved over our older battery modules. This is one reason why I'll go with Re-InVolt when (or if) the time comes.

Our 2003, NHW11 has over 135,000 miles and continues to run without a problem. But I use if for commuting and try to keep the traction battery as cool as possible by parking in the shade whenever possible.

Where is the car now? Are you still driving it?

Thanks,
Bob Wilson

 

I'm not. The issue has not been diagnosed, yet you are, for some reason, working to convince the OP that a leaking battery pack is the issue. Given that HV battery pack replacement—as well as the repair of other P3009 root causes—can run in the thousands of dollars, proper diagnosis in mandatory.

Remember, you're playing with someone else's time and money.

 

That alone would not cause the battery pack to fail.

That alone wouldn't cause the battery pack to fail, either. The battery pack would have to be compromised prior to your climb.

This is a red flag. Diagnosis of this code is normally pretty straightforward. The fact that the dealer has called in the rep so soon in the diagnosis indicates that they may be in over their head.

Start here, at the section entitled "The Diagnosis":

Prius: 1st gen - Replacing Transaxle

Your dealership may not be receptive to an article from an independent shop, but it's worth a shot.

You're a better diagnostician than some of the people on this forum. The symptoms you describe are consistent with a shorted motor winding inside the transaxle. While it's possible that your car could have developed the noise and shudder at the same time that it developed a battery pack issue, it's unlikely. At any rate, it's important that you establish what is wrong for sure, before committing to a repair.

Please note that this is not a diagnosis. Educated guesses never are.

 

Gosh I hope they come back with more details.

The Prius transmission is nothing like regular car so the 'gear-sort of shudders' has me scratching my head. Was it brief, just under 5 seconds, or did it seem to go on and on? Could the shudder have been from the engine?

Just some background information. Our Prius has multiple computers that operate the mechanical systems. Out inputs are pretty much to the control computers and they collaborate to run the car. This is why the diagnostic codes from the computers (Electronic Control Units or ECUs) are so critical to understanding what is going on. Let me give a few examples:

• accelerator pedal - is a pair of variable resistors that in parallel connect to the hybrid vehicle (HV) ECU. They don't even go to the engine ECU but rather the HV ECU sends a request to the engine ECU for the amount of power needed from the gas engine.
• transmission shifter - this lever is connected to a set of resistors and signal lines that go to the HV ECU. This tells the HV ECU if you want to go forward, backward, down a hill using the engine for speed control ( "B', or neutral or park.) The HV ECU operates the transmission.
• transmission - our Prius transmission has two motors that with the engine drive shaft connect to a planetary gear set called the Power Split Device (PSD.) Good Prius friend hobbit once described what happens as a struggle, a wrassling match, between the engine, motor generator 1 (MG1) and motor generator 2 (MG2) to move the car all under the control of the HV ECU. It took me nearly a year of hard study before I felt comfortable with my understanding of the Prius transmission . . . it a technological tour d' force.
• engine ECU - not only is the engine fuel injected but the intake valves change angle and the throttle plate is controlled by the engine ECU in response to the HV ECU request for gas power. Nearly all engines are computer controlled today but the Prius was always at the leading edge.
• brake ECU - handles not only anti-lock but also responds to the braking requests from the HV ECU because the HV ECU also controls regenerative braking. So the HV ECU balances the electrical and mechanical braking. There is a really hard problem with brakes that just as the wheels come to a stop, the brake shoes have to be 'relaxed.' Yet our Prius does this between the HV ECU and brake ECU.

The reason I was asking about the shudder is we've know of cases where the mass air flow sensor, the part that detects how much air is coming into the engine, gets dirty, or the motor that operates the throttle plate gets 'sticky' from gunk in the air intake system. This can also cause the engine to run rough and that might seem like a shudder.

Well let's wait for Toyota to report . . . possibly have them FAX the diagnosis to you so you'll have the technical details. Sometimes it is hard to copy stuff over the phone. One really nice thing would be if they would read out the 19 battery-pair voltages.

If these voltages are pretty close, with no pair out of whack, you may not have to do the battery thing anytime soon. The magic number is 1.2 V., the value of a single battery cell, which we don't want to see in the voltage difference of all 19 pairs. Each pair has 12, 1.2V cells in series and we don't like to see one cell go bad.

GOOD LUCK!
Bob Wilson

 

Glad you are receiving some degree of largesse from T on this post-warranty repair Sarahariz, and I nope that no other problems lurk behind.