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Lab vs ad hoc mileage testing, European

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by bwilson4web, Nov 6, 2010.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    While researching another vehicle, I came across some credible, well written articles describing the difference between lab and ad hoc mileage tests:

    http://www.carkeys.co.uk/features/technical/fuel_economy_testing_part_one.aspx

    Fuel Economy Testing Part Two | Car Keys

    Fuel Economy And Bad Science | Car Keys

    I remain a consistent critic of Consumer Reports 'mileage' reports because we don't know enough about how they conduct their urban tests. They are consistently low suggesting the route and driving conditions are suspect. In contrast, the EPA and European tests are if nothing else, fairly reliable. To the extent that the new EPA protocols match real-world, owner reports, they have merit.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  2. donee

    donee New Member

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    Hi Bob,

    Well, it could be CR mixing up their performance testing with their mileage testing. Having the mileage encompass the performance testing is just not a real-world test. It is cheaper for CR, or any magazine to do however. How many people do you know do full throttle accell, then a slolam course as part of their every day driving.

    But, if you never been to CT, I believe CR is in CT, you might be in for a shock with regard to the Terrain. Its quite hilly. I was there in a winter storm and the drive to the motel was quite interesting. Cars are not driven downhill, they are semi-controlled slid down the hills. There is no such thing as rolling friction allot of the time....
     
  3. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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  4. Dr.Mikki

    Dr.Mikki New Member

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    This is a good topic. However, I see the official EU tests much less realistic than the ones they do in US. For example the EU test is done without any cold starts, all electric equipment is turned off, and for manual transmission cars the points for changing the gears are predetermined (this gives unfair test advantage to cars such as prius). The car makers have also realized the meaning of the tests and are tuning their cars to get better test results without any true benefit in terms fuel economy, e.g. manual transmission cars, get their gears "strecthed" to get better matching with the predetermined gear change points of the tests.

    Also if you look at the numbers, the US test gives 4.7l/100km (50MPG) for Prius when EU test gives 3.9l/100km (60.3MPG) (with 15inch tires). How many people even from this forum actually get 3.9l/100km (60.3MPG) over longer periods. Not too many I would say. Thus, for me the EU test is really quite worthless.
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I appreciate the references but the CR protocol is explained as:

    They did not describe the driving profile:
    • acceleration profiles
    • braking profiles
    What I'm looking for could easily be provided with a time vs velocity chart similar to what we get from the Euro and EPA test series:
    [​IMG]
    This would provide the details to understanding CR's concept of "City" driving.

    Bob Wilson
     
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I agree:
    The USA tests were updated in 2008 to incorporate more highway and cold weather operation. You might find our EPA web site useful because the individual vehicle data also includes user mileage results.

    I believe the EU test begins with a cold, urban cycle and then proceeds to the extra-urban cycle. Not to worry, it took me a while to understand the protocol and generate these charts:
    [​IMG]
    Total EU testing profile with the 46 mph, 1.8L Prius threshold speed.

    This is just the extra urban cycle that happens at the end:
    [​IMG]
    The reason the extra urban cycle is important has to do with the threshold speed between 'hybrid mode' where the engine and traction battery cycle and 'engine on' where the engine runs all the time regardless of speed:
    • 42 mph - NHW11 and NHW20, the 1.5L Prius
    • 46 mph - ZVW30, the 1.8L Prius
    Notice how the lower threshold speed of the 1.5L meant they were often just over the minimum, engine on, always time. But the 1.8L Prius is almost always running in hybrid mode where the ICE can shutdown. This has a practical effect on my 2003 Prius, NHW11 model.

    I have replaced the front wheel tires:
    • 175/65R14 - OEM tires, slightly undersized, they give higher indicated speed and overstate the mileage.
    • 175/70R14 - rear tires, nearly right sized, they give slightly lower indicated speed and closer to true mileage.
    • 195/70R14 - front tires, slightly oversized, they give ~7% lower indicated speed and worse indicated mileage. But I can stay in 'hybrid mode' up to 44 mph true speed which allows me to keep up with traffic on normal USA streets posted at 40 mph.

    One of the articles referenced another that reports small engines with turbochargers reflects this design approach . . . to the test.

    We must introduce you to:

    CleanMPG Forums
    <grins>

    Understand I call myself an efficient driver, not a hypermiler, and I have very little interest in that 'art.' As an efficient driver, anything over EPA is not just 'good enough' but perfect (see signature.)

    Bob Wilson
     
  7. Fred_H

    Fred_H Misoversimplifier

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    Hi Bob! Thanks for linking that article series. I think that is probably the best explanation that I have seen in the popular press.

    I also once took a closer look at the test cycles, and identified what I think are some key factors which are differently simulated and lead to differences in real-world, EPA und NEDC Mileage Tests:

    1. Air conditioning efficiency:

    In the EPA test the ambient temperature is allowed to be 20-30 Degrees C in three of the five test cycles, and a special warm weather air conditioning test cycle is driven with AC turned on at 35 degrees C ambient air temperature for 9,9 minutes and 6 km.

    The NEDC allows an ambient Temperature of 20-30 degrees C, the AC doesn't need to be turned on, and there is no additional special warm weather air conditioning test cycle.


    2. Engine warm up:
    In the EPA test, two of five test cycles are driven with a cold start, and the special cold weather
    test cycle is driven at an ambient temperature of minus 6,7 degrees C with a cold start for 18 km and 31 minutes.

    The NEDC is driven with a cold start for approx. 20 minutes, and the ambient temperature may be 20-30 degrees C.


    3. Efficiency during acceleration:

    The maximum acceleration rate in the EPA test is 13.6 km/h/s, and in the NEDC 3.8 km/h/s.

    4. Air resistance:

    Air resistance is significant starting at around 70 km/h.
    In the EPA test, the portion of the
    test cycle at 70 km/h or higher amounts to approx. 70% of the time in the highway test cycle, and approx. 65% of the time in the high speed test cycle. The highest speed is 129 km/h.

    In the NEDC, the portion of the extra urban drivingcycle (EUDC) at 70 km/h or more amounts to approx. 55% the time, and the highest speed is 120 km/h.


    5. Efficiency at higher speeds:
    In the EPA test, the portion of the
    test cycle at 100 km/h or more in the highway test cycle amounts to 0%, and in the high speed test cycle approx. 40% the time, the highest speed is 129 km/h, and the average speed is approx. 78 km/h.

    In the NEDC, the portion of the EUDC at 100 is km/h or more amounts to approx. 17% of the time, the highest speed is 120 km/h, and the average speed is approx. 65 km/h.

    (Also, IIRC, the pollutant emissions measurements (NOx, CO, and particulates) are also taken during these test cycles. So the real-world, US, and EU pollutant emissions measurements and standards also cannot be directly compared.)
     
    #7 Fred_H, Nov 7, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2014
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  8. Dr.Mikki

    Dr.Mikki New Member

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    @bwilson4web, Do they mention the SOC at the start of the test?
    I bet the SOC was 100% at the start of the test. If so this is going to make a significant difference as the EU test run is only 7miles in 20minutes.


    With my 2007 VW Touran I had 7.9l/100km (EU test 8.0l/100km)
    With my 2009 Prius I get 4.7l/100km (EU test 4.0l/100km)
    Like mentioned in the excellent articles you linked some cars just are way better in the tests than others.
     
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    You raise a good question but I really haven't tried to understand how hybrids are 'normalized'. What is especially curious is how the Volt and other 'Plug-in' vehicles will be tested. But I wanted to share some aspects of the Prius battery management.

    The Prius battery, 28 modules since 2004, are normally kept within an absolute range:
    • 80% - maximum state of charge, any higher and it risks driving some modules into 'overcharge' and generating gas from electrolysis and excess heat.
    • 60% - target state of charge, the hybrid computers will adjust charge and discharge to bring the traction battery to a long term, average of 60%. This provides 'head room' for braking and descending hills of ~160 m (525 ft.) at high speeds.
    • 40% - lower limit to prevent weak modules from being too discharged.
    We don't see 100% charge on the Prius traction batteries (nor the Ford hybrids) due to the risk to the traction battery life. This is just something many of us who have been in the 'hybrid' community often learn early. <wink>

    Those are excellent article and something I follow closely. It is sad that too many of my fellow countrymen don't realize the limitations of tests and how they can distort any process being measured. But I was lucky in my Prius history.

    The first week of October 2005, I took possession of our used, 2003 Prius. So even before I left Huntsville, I was recording, as is my practice, mileage:
    [​IMG]
    Notice the "air miles" mileage in the upper right hand corner. I actually asked the flight crew about the amount of fuel burned on the two segments and calculated the end-to-end, air mileage. But I've done this since 1971 when I bought a 1966, VW MicroBus.

    My 1500 cc, VW MicroBus had an air cooled engine with bolted on, cylinders and cylinder heads. It was common to find in service that the engine would 'stretch' and the valves would not close fully. This would lead to two effects: poor mileage, and; a 'pling' sound as the valves and valve seat gaps tried to 'torch' away. But I would see the mileage effect before the audio and would find a curb to back over and using a piece of cardboard to lay on, I would pop off the valve covers and adjust the valve backlash. Then the mileage would improve and life was good.

    Later, I confirmed that any engine-only vehicle's mileage takes a hit when it needs maintenance:
    • spark plugs
    • oil change
    • other, non-specific maintenance
    So my first or second recommendation to anyone is "find a web site to record and track your mileage." So fast forward to October 2005.

    My first leg from Fort Worth Texas to Shreveport Louisiana. On my drive across about 1/3d of Texas, I was driving like a thief who'd made a great deal. I kept up with Texas traffic, perhaps a little quicker, to reach the Louisiana border before they realized they'd screwed up and asked the Texas Rangers to 'send me back.' My average speed was a little over the posted 75 mph but I was keeping up with traffic. But my first leg, 39 MPG (6.03 L/100 km,) I was appalled and briefly thought about turnout around and returning the car. But then I realized that if the EPA can report at that time 45 MPG highway and 51 MPG city, I'll be a poor engineer if some government bureaucrat can beat my mileage!

    Knowing the exponential effects of high speeds on aerodynamic drag, I drove the next segment at 60 mph. On that second leg, I got 51.7 MPG and knew better was possible. The third leg was at 65 mph, the posted night speed limit, and 51.2 MPG. I subsequently got ~49 MPG on a leg at 70 mph.

    By happy accident, three weeks later I decided to record my mileage at GreenHybrid .com. This was before the "great schism" between the hypermiling advocates and efficient drivers. Understand, the only difference is as an efficient driver, I'm after "pass-fail," anything over the lab tested composite. I have modest performance standards suggesting that 50%+1 is not just good enough, it is perfect. But this moderation comes from my time at Greenhyrid .com.

    I looked at the distribution of Prius mileage and noticed there were some folks who reported exceptionally great mileage in the NHW11 and others who report relatively low mileage, 40 MPG or lower. It was a Gaussian curve. What I learned is it was 'accident of home' that more than anything else set the end user's mileage.

    I contacted one user who was a medical intern, a type of apprentice physician. He lived in Boston, a hilly city in a cold climate, at the bottom of a hill. He had killer hours (they often work 60+ hours per week and are 'on call') and when he needed to go to hospital, there were patients who needed his skills. He was reporting 39 MPG and I knew the Prius was providing the best, lowest cost, transportation available.

    Another user lived at the top of a hill in North Carolina, a warmer climate than Boston. He was getting ~60 MPG until he started letting his son drive the car . . . hummm. In a flash of inspiration, I realized that to a greater or lessor extent, the accident of where someone lives and their 'real life' dictates their Prius mileage.

    Now many of us know that there are techniques that tend to improve Prius mileage. If we can adjust our driving to deal with these characteristics, we can improve our mileage. But this takes study and an understanding of what different external and user managed effects have on mileage. So my studies continue.

    Understand that I share my engineering insights with anyone and some of my Prius friends have feet in both camps. That is OK because my interest had nothing to do with ego, who gets most MPG. It has to do with my curiosity about life and an interest in sharing what little I've learned.

    So I'm happy to see you have a 2009 Prius, the 1.5L or 1.8L version? The reason I ask is there are significant difference between the two. For example, the 1.8L does not require an extended warm-up but the 1.5L Prius thrives on block-heaters and gentle warm-up.

    Bob Wilson
     
  10. Dr.Mikki

    Dr.Mikki New Member

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    Thanks for the insightful answer. I have the 1.8L Prius. Still using block heater helps quite a bit. I also have electric interior heater which also helps as I don't need to crank up the cars heater to get rid off ice or mist in the windows.
     
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  11. donee

    donee New Member

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    Hi All,

    Welp, only that city cyle test is done on a track. The Highway and Mixed tests are done on public roads. The roads in Ct have such steep slopes that they will easily overwhelm the power of the electric braking in a Prius. On the highway, the lengths of downhills will fully charge the battery too. These two things are atypical of the majority of the rest of the US.

    They claim hybrids have some of the biggest discrepencies from EPA to real-world fuel economy. That is just totallly hogwash driving in the real world in Chicagoland. Where the Prius has been the ONLY car I have ever driven that matched the EPA (the OLD EPA, not this present malarky) in typical everyday driving (mostly comuting), and beats it handily with minor hypermilling methods.

    I just cannot use CRs results as anything practical or average or typical for driving here. And having been in cars in Ct, I am pretty sure I know why. Its about the most ATYPICAL driving enviorment compared to 80 percent of the rest of the US. If they were sincerly interested in testing typical of where the majority of their readership resides they should find themselves a nice location in Ohio and go to it.
     
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I agree although the biggest error seems to be their 'track' based 'City' driving. I know how to abuse a Prius on the track, Top Gear style, so that is the one I am most interested in seeing the velocity over time profile. But their highway numbers from the local interstate or divided highway are not so bad. If they would just publish the velocity profile on the 'flat' track, I could readily understand what they are doing.

    Bob Wilson