EV-Mode MPH Increase or SOC Spoofing

I understand you can get to 52mph by creating a no-start condition on the engine and clearing the code. But I've never tried it. I actually did try something like this on my Gen-1 Prius but it would only go to 32 mph.

 

My Conversion (PIS) very sucessfully "spoofed" to deliver 52mph...One drawback, to return to Hybrid mode from pure EV, requires pull over, reset...which in many cases is pretty easy to plan for...PICC conversion probably the best and allows 70mph in EV mode.

 

look for pEEf's thread about his PHEV, he has done it! it involves separating the engine ECU from the HV ECU, and then ignoring/changing some CAN messages. EV works up to ~70mph (it's not speed limited, but power limited), but i would also like a 40mph EV mode, don't really need 70mph.

 

I wish somebody would come up with a reasonably priced kit that works on the calcars method (Plug-in Supply, etc) where amp draw is not limited by a DC-DC converter, which would allow continuous EV mode. Then if we had a proper, inexpensive hack to allow higher speed driving, that would be great.

Right now with the Enginer kit, my Prius is an electric car about half the time I'm driving it. With a better setup, it could operate in pure electric mode for me probably 95% of the time. But I just can't justify the cost of a PICC kit. I'd be better off buying a Nissan Leaf - oh wait, I'm already doing that.. But for everyone else, it would be great if there were a kit available for around $4,000 to $6,000 that would give the Prius a true EV capability, even if it was only for 20 miles.

 

This is pEEf's thread:

http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-...-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicle-project.html

If his hack could be made into an easy to use product (im thinking disconnect the engine ECU harness, and connect a unit in series, then back into the original loom, kind of like a radio adaptor) it would be usable by anyone with any PHEV kit. performance would vary greatly, since an 8 bar pack would get sucked down to empty in 2 minutes at 70mph, with the enginer pack running at 5kw, and could probably run for about 15 minutes at 40mph. a contactor type install could run until empty (if it can handle 20kw). an upgraded enginer kit with 10kw output (or two kits!) would let you go for 3 minutes at 70mph, but would run till empty at 60mph or less.

I think the future could be with Enginer. if they keep improving the product, by adding spoofing and hacks, and increasing the battery size, while keeping the price down, they could nail it.
if they had an 8kwh kit, that fit in the under boot area, easily replaced the regular battery, and had 70mph hack for ~$6k, there would be no stopping them.

 

Lots of wishful thinking in this thread, remember, you get what you pay for. Here is why:

1. Calcars method requires that addon battery is the same voltage as the OEM battery, that's a given, otherwise you'd need DC-DC conversion which will always be a bottleneck. This means you need ~80 Lithium cells to match the OEM battery.
2. Direct connection between 2 batteries will produce current exchange up to 100Amp ( approximate figure for the sake of argument ). To handle such current without damaging the cells you need appropriate size cells, based on their C rating. Prismatics like Motcell and TS are rated 3C, while cylindrical cells like Headway are rated 10C. This means you need at the minimum 40AH prismatics or 10AH cylindricals. Cylindricals cost much more per AH, while provide less capacity = less EV range, so prismatics are better choice.
3. Based on above you need ~80 cells of 40AH for Calcars method to work. Such pack today costs just under $4000 delivered. That's just cells alone.
4. Someone has to engineer electronics, cell enclosure, test, document, market, etc etc, while paying mortgage and feeding kids, so you can't expect this part to fall from the sky, right?
5. Someone has to spend at least one full day installing the kit. Just making 160 cell terminal connections takes a couple of hours alone. Any one of 160 connections isn't tight and the whole thing won't run. Working with high power high voltage takes patience and attention , no cutting corners here.

So, if you consider all this, a good Calcars type kit like Plugin Supply would not cost less than $10k-$12K installed.

The only reason Enginer kit is cheaper is due to less cells, any attempt to increase range and power automatically means more cells and higher cost.

 

Let's not kid ourselves, Enginer's miserable customer communication and/or inability to deliver is going to stop them. The way he does business right now, this guy is going to end up spending all of his time in either court or prison (probably some combination of the two).

 

I disagree. Yes, I agree on the cost of the cells, but being that no DC-DC converter is required, then the cells end up being the majority of the cost of such a kit. So it seems to me that a decent kit should be available in the $6,000 range or so. From what I can see, Plug-in Supply used to offer something in this range, but no longer does. I think $6,000 is reasonable cost considering what it would be able to do.

 

Its a niche market, filled by small companies employing very talanted and experienced engineers, selling less than 500 kits per year. You want them to work for minimum wage so you can buy $6k kit?

I bet you didn't buy those 2 Priuses and a Leaf working for minimum wage, but you expect others to do so


Economy of scale doesn't apply here due to low demand, so you can't expect a Walmart model anytime soon.

BTW, there is a lot more involved in a kit, even without DC-DC converter.

 

Yes, but if the cost were lower, they'd sell a lot more of them. Right now I suspect the main reason they don't sell more is that the general public is completely unaware of the existence of such things. I think that will start to change by next Summer.

 

Yep, my vision is more of a "Seen the Volt on TV???!!! Want to turn your prius into an electric car???!!!! come and have your battery replaced and a plug fitted! you can go 25-40 miles on electric, and then STILL get 50mpg! it's better than the Volt, and CHEAPER too!!"

I suspect Enginer is close to selling as many kits as hymotion already, and they've been in the game a long time. Having something (relatively) cheap and easy is key, and mass produced kits in china (where minimum wage is not exacly a concern) make it possible.

 

Yes, but "Enginer" doesn't do any custom interfacing to the CAN bus, which is required to get EV up to 70mph. That takes engineering and programing talent, and also some custom microcontrollers/firmware, and it's a lot more complex to install. Also, Engineers is a DC-DC converter (read: hack), it will never be able to deliver the required amperage to go full EV at high speed, and no matter how many you put together, its just not gonna happen. BTW, the 4KW kit is on eBay for $1999 + $250 shipping for thanskgiving, and I'm still not buying it

The PICC system is superior to all other conversions so far, except of course for pEEf's outstanding work, he has essentially done the same thing that PICC and the Ewerts have, but he's done it on his own (talk about being truly dedicated)

FYI, this is his thread on his progress:
http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-...-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicle-project.html

I also have a Leaf reservation, however, where I am located (Boston, MA), I can't even order a Leaf until "Fall/Winter 2011", I am much more likely to just plunk down the $13K and go with the PICC conversion, as I can be driving my 2010 Prius 25-50 miles full EV at up to 70mph, 2 years sooner (fall/winter 2011 + 4-7 months for Leaf delivery puts it at mid 2012).

If PICC can qualify for some type of federal rebate, there is no question this is what I will do. Even without the rebate, I would still have a better vehicle than the 2011 Volt ( similar EV range, but much better pack depleted MPG than the Volt), I also suspect it will have more EV range than Toyotas own "official" PHEV in 2012.

Cost is similar to a volt, at $33.5K for my 2010 model V w/ATC package + 13K for the PICC conversion, totals $46K. Sounds like more Volt pricing, but it's not. Just try and actually but a Volt for $41K, good luck. Plus I prefer my Prius, to tell the truth.

In 4 or 5 years there will be many more choices, until then I think a PHEV with 25-50 EV miles at highway speed, is great choice.

 

You're missing my point, if Enginer continue selling a reasonable volume of product, they can get the engineering/programming talent they need and improve the product every couple of months. That way development costs are spread out on existing sales, so they would be able to offer something the same as the PICC system, but at a much lower price and much higher volumes.

 

The only problem I see with the PICC setup and the advertised 70 mph issue is that I don't think they've given any real-world figures on acceleration power. I think the Prius is probably only getting between 25% and 50% of the normal acceleration power of a regular prius. When I was watching a video with a PICC system on the highway, I noticed the driver was having a hard time getting the car up to speed once he hit 50 mph or so. It seemed to take forever to reach 65 mph.

Not that I have a problem with that, specifically, but trying to compare a Prius+PICC to a Chevy volt isn't really accurate. After all, the Volt has its full power available at any speed.

Even though I'll readily admit that the Enginer system is not 'the best' one out there, I think it may be the only one that survives. Because as soon as people are able to actually start buying things like Chevy Volts, and factory-made Prius PHV models, the price-tag of the high-end plug-in kits will not be very appealing. But to be able to buy a used Prius and a cheap Enginer kit will still make sense. Also people may start wanting to upgrade other hybrids once they see these PHEV models on the road and right now Enginer is the only game in town if you have a hybrid other than a Prius.

 

I can tell you from personal experience that EV-only acceleration is not spectacular. It will get to and hold 70mph but not with much margin. We are limited to ~20kw no matter what conversion technology is applied by the Toyota DC-DC boost converter, even though the electric motors and inverters are capable of more. This is not really a problem though, as you can always switch to standard Hybrid mode and then you'll have normal Prius acceleration, but of course at the cost of a little fuel. I do not see this as a problem, as it's only on occasion that this is needed. Besides, if we could do say 80kw power to the wheels, it would really suck the battery down fast! You wouldn't get many miles from your PHEV pack if you used a lot more than 20kw often!

As for the Enginer system, it's definitely low-cost and easy, so the bang-for-the-buck is good. It's limitation is it's own boost converter which seems to be limited to 5kw, and then even that is not the continuous rating. You aren't going to get much from that amount of energy! It is only really useful in stop and go low-speed driving, where the OEM pack acts like a buffer to provide the 20kw for acceleration, and then you catch up with the constant 5kw input.

I do a lot of short trips, so I wanted my PHEV to work without ever using any fuel for these. I'm quite happy with the results so far, but I am going to continue to refine it so it's totally automatic.

 

I like my Enginer system but it would be nice to spoof the HV SOC to allow more use of the pack. The other thing I would like to see is a hack to allow for a little more acceleration from EV mode and maybe a top EV speed of 40. It can be difficult to maintain EV mode in urban traffic without pissing off everyone else on the road.

 

Well, one quick-n-dirty mod you could do for EV mode up to 52 mph is the ECM reset trick. I don't recommend it as you must turn off the car and re-ready to get back to normal Prius mode, but the cost is a few feet of wire and a N.C. Pushbutton. Complexity is almost the same as the EV button install. If anyone is interested, I'll be happy to post a how-to.

I might make a kit available for high-speed EV mode (over 52 mph) once I get the kinks out and have it fully automatic w/o the need to manually adjust anything. I don't like the fact that you must switch anything in order to have full ICE power if/when you need it, and I'd be nervous about letting anyone else put it in their car w/o it being automatic.