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EPA on Volt: 93 MPGe electric, 37 mpg gas-only, 60mpg combined

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by UsedToLoveCars, Nov 24, 2010.

  1. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    By zero direct global-warming emissions, I meant neglecting how much greenhouse gases are produced during electric-energy generation. It would be zero indirect emissions as well for hydroelectric, nuclear, etc. power.

    If saving money is your real goal, simply by a cheap used car or keep your old car well-maintained and well-running. Then you will not just save $$$ but $$$,$$$ in the long run.
     
  2. adamace1

    adamace1 Senior Member

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    please show how you come up with those numbers.

    I thought it took 12.6 kilwat hours to charge a volt then say you go 45 miles, thats my cost is 9.2 cents per kilowatt so thats $1.15 to charge it. So thats $.025 per mile.

    My prius goes around 51.7 mpg, i pay an average 2.85 a gallon so it costs $.055 per mile.

    The prius costs twice as much!!! so after 100,000 miles the prius would cost 3k more in "power costs" so after a million miles you would spend $30,000 less in "power costs" driving a volt. I didn't know the volt costs 30k more than the prius.

    And before you bring the issue up, i'm talking about people with short drives, not long drives.
     
  3. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Who?

    It was supposed to be the answer for a large chunk of the market.

    The reveal of range & efficiency combined with price has shrunk Volt's potential buyer quantity quite a bit over time.
    .
     
  4. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    I use EPA label figures:

    Volt: 35 miles on 12.9 kwh. I am still unsure if charging losses are included, but I'll give the Volt the benefit of the doubt and say they are. National median electricity prices are 12 cents a kwh. You will note that is also on the EPA label.

    Prius: 5.5 cents/mile
    Volt: 12.9 * 12/35 = 4.42 cents/mile.

    Closer to 1 cent/mile Volt advantage, but I took the EPA label of 4 cents/mile for the Volt to arrive at 1.5 cents/mile saving in fuel charges.

    Prius: 50 miles on 1 gallon. National fuel prices are about $2.75/gallon.
     
  5. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    The 12.9 is total energy consumed, including losses from charging.

    GM states the quantity available for EV is 10.4 kWh.
    .
     
  6. VSUIRP

    VSUIRP Junior Member

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    That's what I was talking about having to recharge in the middle of a long drive. You will still have to fill up the Volt with gas, and yes you can recharge it when sleeping, but if you want to take a trip longer than 50 miles AND you want to get better than 41 mpg (or so) you will have stop to plug it in, and stop more frequently than the Prius for fuel. By the way if you do all your daily commuting within 40 miles or so, the Volt will actually notify you to DO some driving to BURN OFF some fuel that has been sitting in the fuel tank.

    I guess I have a hard time with 93 mpg (equivalent) but the car can't go 93 miles on just electric unless you stop to plug it in.


    Another point - For those of us with a garage, charging it will be relatively easy and neat, but if the car is outside, and it rains, snows or is a really dusty area, when you have to disconnect the power cable it will most likely be covered in the elements. If you don't have a garage, you will have to put it in the trunk which means you and the car will get some of it on you.

    If you charge the Volt with a 110 outlet it will take around 10 hours. If you use 220 it will take around 5, but the 220 'charge kit' and install come to around $2,000.00.

    I am not knocking the Volt, but I think there are some functional issues not being discussed.

    I guess we will just have to wait and see how they do in the real world with real drivers.
     
  7. hampdenwireless

    hampdenwireless Active Member

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    They will sell everyone they can make. It is hardly stillborn.

    And no.... GM will not be 'holding back'. Supply of the Volt is mostly constrained by battery production as the Prius was some years ago.
     
  8. hampdenwireless

    hampdenwireless Active Member

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    That is absurd. Only if you never plug in the car or drive more then 60 miles a day would that be true. Most of the initial buys of the Volt are going to be doing most of their driving on electric.
     
  9. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    You are just saying that the Volt fits your driving needs about as well as a Prius fits the needs of my equestrian friend who has to pull a horse trailer many weekends.

    You shouldn't buy a Volt. It would just waste some of the very limited supply that cannot possibly fill the likely demand from those drivers who could make perfect use of it.
     
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  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if gm is really serious, and this is the first iteration of their alternative fuel vehicles, i can live with it. it's not a bad start and shows they can accomplish something if they want to. however, all that remains to be seen.:cool:
     
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  11. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    So the Volt's EPA range is listed as 397 miles.

    On the same scale, my Prius scores (50 x 11.9) = 595 miles.
    But my Subaru scores (21 x 15.9) = 334 miles -- better than an earlier Ford -- so the Volt isn't so bad.
     
  12. VSUIRP

    VSUIRP Junior Member

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  13. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    It really is the worse of both worlds. 35 miles on EV and 37 MPG on HV. The best EV range belongs to the Leaf (73 miles) and the best HV MPG belongs to the Prius (50 MPG) and both are mid-size cars. Volt is a compact that only seat 4. There are plenty of compact cars that seat 5. Volt also cost more than the Leaf or the Prius. In terms of range, gas efficiency, interior room or cost, Volt has the worst combination.
     
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  14. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Volt is a great car for leasing only. You are limited to about 13k miles per year (35 EV miles per day x 365 days). Drive more than that and you'll be penalized. It is not a great car for American highway long distance freedom drive. It can but you don't get the "hybrid car MPG".
     
  15. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Isn't this because the Volt figured out how to actually block the rear center seat?

    I once had a compact listed as 4 passengers, 4 seatbelts, and that was an honest capacity. But partying teenagers often cram in extras. When tragedy struck one such group of late night partyers, fatally launching the center rear passenger through the windshield (same model & year as mine), family sued over the lack of a center seat belt. I had understood that this lawsuit effectively put an end to honest four-passenger ratings, so similar cars now have a fifth set of seatbelts, even when they are just a cruel joke.
     
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  16. Erikon

    Erikon Active Member

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    The Volt is best for people who have shorter commutes and don't do long "freedom" drives. Unfortunately these customers are also the ones who can't or won't spend big bucks for a car! And even if five passenger cars can't really fit five adults comfortably, it's nice to have that space for purses, briefcases and packages! GM will sell every Volt they make for two years or so, cause they're making so few and the govt. and GE have put in big orders! However, I hear Rush Limbaugh hates the Volt, so I am forced to love it!:D
     
  17. hampdenwireless

    hampdenwireless Active Member

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    There you go with that seats thing again. It really does not matter to most people, and anyone who really needs that 5'th seat probably does not want a Prius either.

    The best of both worlds for the Volt is being able to go all electric then unlike the Leaf continue to drive for hundreds of miles without stopping.

    With all of the talk about the 'penalty' of carting around that big heavy generator, the Volt gets pretty good electric efficiency. I will admit that is the only specification where I felt Chevy beat my expectations, the deal killer for me is the price.
     
  18. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    If Prius isn't big enough, they'll simply buy a Prius-V instead.

    No larger choice is planned for the Volt platform.
    .
     
  19. wick1ert

    wick1ert Senior Member

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    This is the extremely sad part. Most of the good FE vehicles are the smaller vehicles (and no, I'm not talking Mini size). With trucks and larger vehicles in the US continually outselling cars by large margins, they need to turn now and focus A LOT on the larger vehicle FE. That's where the biggest gains in terms of saving oil and gas stand to be made currently. Although, I'm sure the "more strict" FE standards will help with that, provided they don't get overturned somehow.

    Lets work on a 10%, 20%, 30% increase in FE on the larger vehicles next. Those increases will conserve the most fossil fuels in vehicles. Luckily, it appears Toyota is starting down those lines with the Prius V and even Ford is making big strides without necessarily going hybrid on them.
     
  20. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Fortunately for GM, MPV5 has been shown...
    Beijing 2010: Chevrolet Volt MPV5 crossover revealed — Autoblog

    But since Volt is not yet selling widely, nor its EPA rating is very goog in CS mode, a larger vehicle would require a major effort to develop. Volt took 4 years...

    ;)