Best Bang for Gulp: Highlander Hybrid 2WD

The upcoming GS450h and LS600h should blow these numbers away. Just some rough guesses:

GS450h: 400hp 27mpg == 108
LS600h: 500hp 25mpg == 125

Also, they screwed up on the RX400h numbers, it should tie with the Highlander Hybrid.

 

They should at least include weight in the calculations.

 

That's right... they have the RX's hp as 208. Just from looking at the Lexus web site, it's listed as 268, just like they listed the Highlander.

The Lexus comes only in 4WD i think, so it'll have worse fuel economy, but yeah, that's an oversight.

Ergh. Horsepower alone doesn't mean squat. It takes more power to move around a bigger vehicle... so what's their point even? What's everyone's obsession with horsepower anyway? it's all relative!

 

GS450h has 400hp? Where did you find that?
I have seen talks of 340hp, but 400hp?

 

It was just a guess, and after thinking about it, probably way too optimistic.

Figure 306hp from the gas engine, based on what's in the IS350, minus whatever they lose to detuning - more restrictive exhaust due to hybrid components taking up space, etc.

Then add a minimum of 60hp from the battery. So maybe 340-360hp is more realistic.

 

Since they are talking “peak horsepower†. . . let’s add the Prii electric motor into the equation:

76 hp for gasoline engine.
+
67 hp for electric motor. (Per Toyota)
=
143 total hp
x
60 mpg
=
8580
/
100
=
85.8 . . . which is good for second place on their chart.

THE PRIUS . . . A MUSCLE CAR!!! :lol:

 

Peak power for hybrid vehicles is gas engine + battery, not gas engine + motor. The electric motor has to get power from somewhere.

That's why the Prius is 82kw (57kw + 25kw) and Highlander Hybrid is 200kw (155kw + 45kw). I believe the Toyota US web site is incorrect when it lists the peak output of the Prius battery as 21kw.

 

Then according to that logic, shouldn’t it be: "Peak power for hybrid vehicles is gasoline + battery"??? . . . because the gas engine has to get power from somewhere too. <_<

The battery is “potential†energy.
The gasoline is also “potential†energy.

"Peak Horsepower" - of which the article is referring - is a measure of mechanical energy . . . which, on a hybrid like the Prius, is the combined output of the gasoline engine and electric motors.

All of the horsepower which can be measured from the electric motors is actually residual energy which previously originated from the gasoline and gas engine.

If there is to be a fair comparison of cars and their “peak horsepower," don’t penalize the Prius by acting like its second source of horsepower doesn’t exist.

To measure the Prius for peak horsepower from only the gas engine is disingenuous at best.

I can’t help it if the Prius is smart enough to hold on to some of that energy for later use by the electric motor.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech/auto/...uscle.table.htm

 

They must have missed the Honda Accord Hybrid,

which depending on the actual figures used for hp and mileage, woudl come in at least a very close second at 86 points, and more likely would rank top - above the HH.

 

I didn't realize the Prius was on the list, but without inclusion of the battery power.

You'd think since that since the #1 car on the list was a hybrid, they would have checked that they used a consistent standard for rating the power output for all hybrids. I guess that's too much to expect from the average newspaper writer.

 

Horsepower is NOT a measure of "mechanical energy". Power and energy measure two completely different things, as energy has no unit time component. Power is energy per unit time.

You can't add the output of the gas and electric motor, because the only way the electric motor can output more power than available from the battery (25kw * ~95% efficiency) is to get power from MG1. And MG1 gets it's power from the ICE. You don't get to count that power twice. The peak output of the drivetrain is going to be 76hp + (25kw * electric motor efficiency), or around 82kw (109hp).

I didn't realize until going back and rereading the table that they only counted the gasoline portion of the Prius drivetrain. Just because the total amount of energy in the battery is much smaller than what's contained in a full fuel tank is no reason to omit the battery power. You could think of MG2 like a second engine that has a one cup fuel tank, which can be refilled slowly from the main tank.

 

So pretty much, the article is wholly inconsistent with the horsepower figure that they get from Hybrids. They think the Highlander Hybrid is 268, but the RX400h is a measly 208, and the Prius only 76.

... and it's a stupid, meaningless, and utterly confusing measure anyway.

Silly newspaper, Trix are for kids!

 

Slowly refilled from the main tank, or refilled from other sources: regenerative braking.

There's two was of looking at it. One way is that every time the Prius does it's regeneration thing, it's stretching the little bit of fuel burned for kinetic energy back into potential energy that can be used again...

Or the other way of looking at is that any other vehicle would have lost that energy completely, so that it's a distinct energy source from gasoline.