Smoke and Mirrors

yes, but that was about Ford and Jonny is talking about Mazda

 

<_< LM, you can make your points without name calling.

Your posts will be more powerful if you give the facts and your interpretation of them rather than attacking someone with incomplete and/or different facts and a different interpretation.

 

Think about the big picture. Because of Toyota, American car companies have tough competition and thus have to push harder to make better cars.

Your argument seems to be that: Toyota competes against GM, Ford, Chrystler... therefore, Toyota is evil, needs to go away before Americans can prosper.

Look at Ford. They are pursuing their own hybrid technology... by all accounts the Escape Hybrid has been a success in it's own right. GM and the others are all putting effort into developing hybrids... they'll need to hire more engineers, develop their own American solutions to stuff like battery packs, transmissions...

My friend's aunt is one of the key designers for Ford's hybrid system. She has her job in part because Toyota has been pushing hard...

This is competition... it's the way our system works. You're just whining because your home team isn't winning. Real mature.

 

The Mazda Tribute is the same frame as the Ford Escape, so the Tribute Hybrid will be very similar and based on the same Ford technologies.

 

Well people called him a troll before. I don't think I did any worse.

Where did I go offtopic? I'm sorry if I did, but I'm not sure where I went off topic...

 

I don't think you went off topic at all

 

Yeah, that was worse.
I didn't think much of that either when I read it.

 

OOOO, OOO,,me too!!!!!

 

It's "deja vu all over again."

We're in an unpopular war overseas. Civil rights are being violated. Gas is getting more expensive, rippling through the economy. Due to better foriegn competition, the Big Three are in financial trouble. There are those who blame the Japanese (and the Germans last time) for our poor automotive economy. Detroit comes out with attempts to compete, but the "too little too late" approach doesn't help much. Patriotism by those who drive foriegn cars is questioned.

Stop me if you've heard any of this before...

 

According to the EPA, there is a 1.2 MPG difference between the domestic fleet average and the asian (japanese/korean) fleet average. And I'm pretty sure if you took GM and Dodge ("dude, got a hemi") out of the mix, Ford might even be higher than the asian fleet average.

Unfortunately the EPA doesn't break it down by brand. But I'd wager if you took Honda out of the asian average it would go down a few MPG.

 

Me three!

 

Malorn's point that hybrid drive can be used to trade fuel economy for performance is also true. At least hybrid drive gives carheads a less irresponsible alternative to existing gashog products. But other non-market remedies would work faster, such as applying passenger vehicle CAFE and emission standards to all vehicles that in "the real world" are actually used as passenger vehicles instead of giving them a free pass under the bogus light-truck rules.

 

Yes... it lacks granularity. Doesn't have granularity among vehicle classes either...

 

LM - yes, you are right in that this does sound like an X-file conspiracy.

Toyota's execs are sitting behind close doors right now plotting...and a friend of my uncle's cousin told me they put them there little computer chips in each car that is set to detonate in the year 2007.

Com'n people - economics are plain and simple. The consumer drives the numbers - what the consumer wants, the consumer buys. Corporate management should see these trends and go with it. If not, they are doomed to fail. What country actually makes these cars, imported, exported...doesn't matter. To concern one self with imperial take-over is immature.

Wasn't it about a month ago that a GM Exec placed his "gut instinct" on the SUV market because he thinks that is what we want? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't...let's watch the numbers shall we?

 

GM deliberately dismantled non polluting transportation infrastructures in order to replace them with stinking smoke belching buses.

Toyota is selling vehicles that create no more, and probably less, pollution than what the competition would be selling if Toyota did not compete in the market segments about which you are complaining.

Big difference.

Were you or someone close to you fired by Toyota? Do you have relatives whose retirement benefits are being negatively affected by GM’s current financial problems? Why are you not attacking Nissan, Honda, VW, Mercedes Benz or BMW, to name but a few?

 

Yep, they're actually assembled right here in Winnipeg by New Flyer Industries. Kind of cute how GM could figure out a hybrid system for a large city bus but not for an average domestic sedan. Can't see the forest for all the trees?

http://www.newflyer.com/index/brt_de60i_de60lf_de4

 

And whose fault is that? We - North America - handed them the economy lock, stock, and barrel. You can "thank" short-sighted greedy corporations like GM and many clueless politicians. Don't blame us for their problem.

What?? If anything the "media" as you put it is full of anti-hybrid bias. And what would Toyota "gain" by destroying their most lucrative market?

Oh wait, this is a Conspiracy Theory about Toyota running the world, right?

They sure are eager to get out of THAT busines, especially after getting all those UAW concessions. Why didn't Lutz et al give up THEIR benefits??

 

GM knows how to do it.....and they proved it with the EV1...which they selfishly smashed to bits despite offers from the public to buy the doomed vehicles outright.

it's all about the money.

blaming consumers for their market preference is so idiotic that I can't imagine where the initial poster's mindset is.... is it a reflection of a majority or just a couple of flag-waving elitists?.

 

Simple supply side economics....

Don't rule out the creativity of the American inventor. We can do anything we want! America will not end, we will get tired of getting our buts kicked and then we will do something about it.

In the mean time, giant snails like GM and Ford go the way of the dinasaur.

We are capable right now of ending our reliance on forign oil and we are capable of reducing environmental damage.... The question is do we "collectively" want to? We decided to put a man on the moon when the technology did not exist and was not even thought of.

There will come a day when we will have no choice, and we will rally and do the right thing. We always have and I believe we always will. In my way of thinking, proping up GM is like delaying the inevitable.

Anti-American because I buy a Prius? Get a grip!